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Thread: sweating in the night

  1. #11
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    Night sweats and hot flashes with or without drenching sweats are very common in CF. At some time nearly all CFers experience them. It can be chronic or episodic. Chronic sweats may wax and wane, but it's always an issue. There's a CF issue causing this, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Episodes of sweats have a less direct trigger like certain infections. For example, the mini series, "Downton Abbey", in the pre-antibiotic days, one of the daughters is brought back from the brink of death with a large injection of adrenaline, epinephrine, the ultimate stimulant of the immune system. CFers are generally taxed out on stress hormones. The result of stress hormones surging throughout the body can cause sweats.

    The cause is simple, we have CF. The exact trigger most likely changes depending on what is the current severity of the many battles going on in our bodies. Infections are being fought all over the body of a CFer. Unofficial statistics indicate that for most of the life of a CFer, an illness knocks us down fast and the recovery is equally fast, most times. We are often thin and though we're not great at digestion and absorption of nutrients, the fact remains that we need far more calories than a person not fighting infection, inefficiencies in the transportation of everything from hormones to water and oxygen. Most of us are hypermetabolic despite tests that say we're not. I have two friends who are too thin, that I do amateur (unlicensed) physical therapy and massage. One has CF and the other is the victim of PEM or Protein Energy Malnutrition. It becomes obvious that I am a heater, as are my grateful charges. The amount of body heat emanating from two thin people is astonishing. I've got to believe that I am in good company, most parents and young adults are aware of this phenomenon. Add the fact that the normal cooling system people use, sweating, doesn't work when we need it to.

    We live in a kind of cold war with stockpiles of antibodies, antigens and fighter cells, far exceeding the amounts a healthy non CFer would possess. The sheer volume of bacterial infections in a CFers lungs, head, and the endocrine system is astonishing. Our gut, mostly the GI tract keeps our immunity on Red Alert by routinely introducing the body to novel infections for the body to design antibodies or eliminate the test infections via fighter cells like lymphocytes and lukocytes. This is a natural function of the gut and it occurs in everybody, CF or not. It helps us understand why it's called the center of our immune system.

    Whether it's a lung infection or a battle of thick mucus trying to transport hormones in the thyroid gland or the adrenal glands and kidneys, these are triggers that result in sweats. I believe that the connection with the autonomic (sympathetic/parasympathetic) nervous system is a major factor behind this. CF is deeply connected to the autonomic or Vagus nerve system. Think about it. Lung pain, minus the bronchials, doesn't hurt directly. The pain may refer to the back, sometimes the ribs, but not the lungs. Pancreatitis and Cholestasis might be painful where the organs are, but most often the gallbladder feels like an epic case of heartburn, or a burp/belch caught up high in the stomach. I had one that sent me to the ED because of the similarity to a heart attack. Both the gallbladder and pancreas refer pain to the back, around or between the shoulder blades. Both feel like heartburn, called epigastric pain. The sinuses and the GI tract show pain more directly, and infection can easily translate to night sweats.

    All of this is common sense and sometimes it just doesn't feel like the cause. I researched this about a year ago because of people suffering from sweating calves, ankles and feet, or forearms and hands. Do all CFers have sweaty clammy palms and soles? I am really interested, seriously. Back in 2012 I had some event that ended in the ED. My personal guess was a thyroid storm but they didn't run a thyroid assay so I will never know. The sweating of my hands and feet was a medical mystery. I held my hand above a measuring cup and within two minutes, I had sweat a quarter cup of super salty water. My shoes were ruined as they filled and overflowed with the same salty solution.

    It turns out that our thyroid gland does more than wrap around the lower pharanx/larynx. The thyroid gland hangs like a beard, entwined around the wind pipe, it transitions from interconnected thyroid nodules to lymph nodes. Lymph nodes fill a large amount of the chest, clustered around the heart and lungs.

    The odd population of thyroid nodules and lymph nodes in an area generally under attack by allergens, and infection and the results can be a bizarre response of calf-to-sole and arm-to-palm sweats, often at night. This is for real and not funny in the least. I haven't been able to find research connecting this phenomenon to night sweats, but by being mostly a night sweat of the outer limbs, I believe they are related. This isn't a phenomenon for CF alone. Most people who have this condition are dealing with a chronic illness as well, so immunity and the autonomic system are likely the root.

    Look into cool pillows and my favorite, a tent frame for the feet. Anyone who has had foot surgery or any reason to keep the covers off the feet has seen them. Medical appliance stores sell the frames. Good hydration, including balanced electrolytes can't hurt.

    Hope this helps,

    LL
    66 yr. old man, DX CF 2002 by sweat test. Heterozygous S1235R revealed by genetic testing in 2003 & 2012 accepted secondary mutation. 7T, 7T polymorphism appears to be virulent.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLab4CF View Post
    Night sweats and hot flashes with or without drenching sweats are very common in CF. At some time nearly all CFers experience them. It can be chronic or episodic. Chronic sweats may wax and wane, but it's always an issue. There's a CF issue causing this, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Episodes of sweats have a less direct trigger like certain infections. For example, the mini series, "Downton Abbey", in the pre-antibiotic days, one of the daughters is brought back from the brink of death with a large injection of adrenaline, epinephrine, the ultimate stimulant of the immune system. CFers are generally taxed out on stress hormones. The result of stress hormones surging throughout the body can cause sweats.

    The cause is simple, we have CF. The exact trigger most likely changes depending on what is the current severity of the many battles going on in our bodies. Infections are being fought all over the body of a CFer. Unofficial statistics indicate that for most of the life of a CFer, an illness knocks us down fast and the recovery is equally fast, most times. We are often thin and though we're not great at digestion and absorption of nutrients, the fact remains that we need far more calories than a person not fighting infection, inefficiencies in the transportation of everything from hormones to water and oxygen. Most of us are hypermetabolic despite tests that say we're not. I have two friends who are too thin, that I do amateur (unlicensed) physical therapy and massage. One has CF and the other is the victim of PEM or Protein Energy Malnutrition. It becomes obvious that I am a heater, as are my grateful charges. The amount of body heat emanating from two thin people is astonishing. I've got to believe that I am in good company, most parents and young adults are aware of this phenomenon. Add the fact that the normal cooling system people use, sweating, doesn't work when we need it to.

    We live in a kind of cold war with stockpiles of antibodies, antigens and fighter cells, far exceeding the amounts a healthy non CFer would possess. The sheer volume of bacterial infections in a CFers lungs, head, and the endocrine system is astonishing. Our gut, mostly the GI tract keeps our immunity on Red Alert by routinely introducing the body to novel infections for the body to design antibodies or eliminate the test infections via fighter cells like lymphocytes and lukocytes. This is a natural function of the gut and it occurs in everybody, CF or not. It helps us understand why it's called the center of our immune system.

    Whether it's a lung infection or a battle of thick mucus trying to transport hormones in the thyroid gland or the adrenal glands and kidneys, these are triggers that result in sweats. I believe that the connection with the autonomic (sympathetic/parasympathetic) nervous system is a major factor behind this. CF is deeply connected to the autonomic or Vagus nerve system. Think about it. Lung pain, minus the bronchials, doesn't hurt directly. The pain may refer to the back, sometimes the ribs, but not the lungs. Pancreatitis and Cholestasis might be painful where the organs are, but most often the gallbladder feels like an epic case of heartburn, or a burp/belch caught up high in the stomach. I had one that sent me to the ED because of the similarity to a heart attack. Both the gallbladder and pancreas refer pain to the back, around or between the shoulder blades. Both feel like heartburn, called epigastric pain. The sinuses and the GI tract show pain more directly, and infection can easily translate to night sweats.

    All of this is common sense and sometimes it just doesn't feel like the cause. I researched this about a year ago because of people suffering from sweating calves, ankles and feet, or forearms and hands. Do all CFers have sweaty clammy palms and soles? I am really interested, seriously. Back in 2012 I had some event that ended in the ED. My personal guess was a thyroid storm but they didn't run a thyroid assay so I will never know. The sweating of my hands and feet was a medical mystery. I held my hand above a measuring cup and within two minutes, I had sweat a quarter cup of super salty water. My shoes were ruined as they filled and overflowed with the same salty solution.

    It turns out that our thyroid gland does more than wrap around the lower pharanx/larynx. The thyroid gland hangs like a beard, entwined around the wind pipe, it transitions from interconnected thyroid nodules to lymph nodes. Lymph nodes fill a large amount of the chest, clustered around the heart and lungs.

    The odd population of thyroid nodules and lymph nodes in an area generally under attack by allergens, and infection and the results can be a bizarre response of calf-to-sole and arm-to-palm sweats, often at night. This is for real and not funny in the least. I haven't been able to find research connecting this phenomenon to night sweats, but by being mostly a night sweat of the outer limbs, I believe they are related. This isn't a phenomenon for CF alone. Most people who have this condition are dealing with a chronic illness as well, so immunity and the autonomic system are likely the root.

    Look into cool pillows and my favorite, a tent frame for the feet. Anyone who has had foot surgery or any reason to keep the covers off the feet has seen them. Medical appliance stores sell the frames. Good hydration, including balanced electrolytes can't hurt.

    Hope this helps,

    LL
    Thanks LL. I am not a CFer who is thin. I am overweight and have great difficulty losing. Anyway, my feet do sweat like crazy - never put that together with CF. That makes sense. Yes have episodes of night sweats, as you say. I also do NOT bounce back from illness quickly at all! I have been sick for 9 weeks with upper respiratory illness. Was sweating at the start. Then it stopped. Now sweating again. Thanks for the info.
    ~ Simba15
    56 year old, diagnosed at age 50. Blessed to still be here!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Printer View Post
    Simba:

    If it is not "a woman thing", it could be MAC. Microbacterical Atrium Complex (sp). You should discuss this with your CF Doctor.

    Bill
    Printer:what are the symptoms of your MAC? Is it trreatable? Sorry to hear you have an other dx!
    ~ Simba15
    56 year old, diagnosed at age 50. Blessed to still be here!

  4. #14
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    MAC, in the past was called ATYPICAL TB. Basically TB but not contagious. It is treated with a cocktail of 3 antibiotics for up to 9 months. Does cause night sweats and is upper respiratory. In Massachusetts, it requires a sputum sample to be sent to the state lab for dx.

    Actually I had it twice over 30 years and I'm free from it now.

    Bill
    Male 77 CF undetected until age 47. (First symptoms at age 3) Delta F508 & V562I with one copy of Variant 5T. 100% PI. MAC, CFRD.

  5. #15
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    Simba15,
    Thanks for your contribution. I was thinking about you and a couple other CFers who don't fit the stereotype of being skinny all the time I was trying to write the post you quoted. Insulin resistance, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (Hashimoto's syndrome) and any number of autoimmune diseases, other hereditary issues beyond CF affect our community at the same rates experienced in the general population. All of these issues are worthy of their own discussions. There's something inherently unfair to have a compounding condition like insulin resistance resulting in difficulty losing weight. There's also something inherently exasperating when trying to diagnose and treat a condition compounded by CF.

    For a disease that is in essence, the poor transport of chloride ions, it seems that it should be instantly fatal or no problem at all. Nothing could be further from the truth, it ranges from something that is maintained and the patient will live a typical lifespan to a vulnerability to disease where each indecent is life threatening. Because of this range, I imagine that the difference between those who post and those who just read the posts could be a difference in who gets knocked down hard and bounces back and those who get sick and it takes forever to recover. As a question for you, has recovery from being sick always been slow and arduous?

    Having peeked at your (about me) profile, it's apparent that you are active and healthy as you can be. Being overweight is not too different from having CF and normal lungs. The expectation, even people who have read up on CF are befuddled when I try to explain GI dominant CF. When I was born, the majority of CF patients were being treated for pancreatic issues and because of CF's nature, gastritis, GERD, IBS, malabsorption/maldigestion, chronic DIOS or other constipation ad nauseum. Pulmonary treatments and antibiotics have raised the average lifespan from a lucky few to about forty years.

    I don't mean to marginalize anything or anybody when it comes to being sick. Being sick is a lot like pain. The worst pain there is, is the worst pain you have felt. I know that everybody doesn't spring back from an illness. I also know that we are generally better at fighting the ravages of CF when we are younger, but not too young. CF is a game of inches, but like earthquake faults, things may remain static for some time and then we get a jolt of several inches, maybe more.

    LL
    66 yr. old man, DX CF 2002 by sweat test. Heterozygous S1235R revealed by genetic testing in 2003 & 2012 accepted secondary mutation. 7T, 7T polymorphism appears to be virulent.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLab4CF View Post
    Simba15,
    Thanks for your contribution. I was thinking about you and a couple other CFers who don't fit the stereotype of being skinny all the time I was trying to write the post you quoted. Insulin resistance, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (Hashimoto's syndrome) and any number of autoimmune diseases, other hereditary issues beyond CF affect our community at the same rates experienced in the general population. All of these issues are worthy of their own discussions. There's something inherently unfair to have a compounding condition like insulin resistance resulting in difficulty losing weight. There's also something inherently exasperating when trying to diagnose and treat a condition compounded by CF.

    For a disease that is in essence, the poor transport of chloride ions, it seems that it should be instantly fatal or no problem at all. Nothing could be further from the truth, it ranges from something that is maintained and the patient will live a typical lifespan to a vulnerability to disease where each indecent is life threatening. Because of this range, I imagine that the difference between those who post and those who just read the posts could be a difference in who gets knocked down hard and bounces back and those who get sick and it takes forever to recover. As a question for you, has recovery from being sick always been slow and arduous?

    Having peeked at your (about me) profile, it's apparent that you are active and healthy as you can be. Being overweight is not too different from having CF and normal lungs. The expectation, even people who have read up on CF are befuddled when I try to explain GI dominant CF. When I was born, the majority of CF patients were being treated for pancreatic issues and because of CF's nature, gastritis, GERD, IBS, malabsorption/maldigestion, chronic DIOS or other constipation ad nauseum. Pulmonary treatments and antibiotics have raised the average lifespan from a lucky few to about forty years.

    I don't mean to marginalize anything or anybody when it comes to being sick. Being sick is a lot like pain. The worst pain there is, is the worst pain you have felt. I know that everybody doesn't spring back from an illness. I also know that we are generally better at fighting the ravages of CF when we are younger, but not too young. CF is a game of inches, but like earthquake faults, things may remain static for some time and then we get a jolt of several inches, maybe more.

    LL
    Hi LL. I have always taken a long time to get well and recover from illness. My weight has gotten worse with age. Yes I have insulin resistance. Isn't this unusual for CF?
    ~ Simba15
    56 year old, diagnosed at age 50. Blessed to still be here!

  7. #17
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    Found out I had Cf at 50 To!

    Quote Originally Posted by Simba15 View Post
    I do the same. I didn't know if it is a CF thing or a woman thing.
    I also have night sweats ,I also found out I had CF at 50 just dont hear that every day

  8. #18
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    Possible Causes: Antibiotic reaction, Infection, Low blood sugar, sudden weather changes.
    AMBER 26yrs CF (Double F508DEL) Married w/ CFRD, Double Lung TX 3-13-07 Kidney TX 7-2-07
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    God is within her, she will not fall 46:5

  9. #19
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    My impression is a genetic cause or an autoimmune condition is behind your insulin resistance. Type 2 diabetes often involves insulin resistance and the cause behind that is a diet I'm quite sure you don't subscribe to. This is where you look at your ancestors and parents for something that could explain genetics passed down.

    With an autoimmune condition, you might want to explore it with a specialist assuming you haven't exhausted the possibility. The diagnosis may not be as complicated as a syndrome with as many conditions as complaints. You have a diagnosis, the question is what can be done to treat it.

    Considering the percentage of insulin resistant people who are so because of a diet that is beyond unhealthy, your insulin resistance is rare. That aside, I wouldn't eliminate a dysfunction resulting from CF. The summary would be that it is uncommon to have insulin resistance. You're limited to the small population that is genetically predisposed, or have an autoimmune condition.

    In my mid twenties I was unaware of my prejudice against obese people. I'm talking morbidly obese or close to it. At a business meeting with several companies meeting for the first time, our Host's right hand man was huge. I honestly didn't realize my disdain was so obvious, because his boss found a well timed moment and called me on it. I was embarrassed that my feelings weren't lost on a man who was a gracious co-host. His boss went on to explain that helps barely qualified for the Navy because of his weight. His weight skyrocketed and the camp doctor restricted him to 600 Calories/day. He continued to gain weight and the disbelieving doctor placed him in the hospital with round the clock guards. He continued to gain at the same rate. The Navy was curious and he was a willing guinea pig. He had weight reduction surgery, literally stripping fat off his body. When bariatric surgery came along, he had it. I met him shortly after recovering from the surgery. It seems impossible but it was one of a million people who have a genetic predisposition towards an impossible metabolic condition.

    My apologies for not being more inclusive in my response. Like I said, these are topics worthy of their own discussions.

    LL
    66 yr. old man, DX CF 2002 by sweat test. Heterozygous S1235R revealed by genetic testing in 2003 & 2012 accepted secondary mutation. 7T, 7T polymorphism appears to be virulent.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLab4CF View Post
    My impression is a genetic cause or an autoimmune condition is behind your insulin resistance. Type 2 diabetes often involves insulin resistance and the cause behind that is a diet I'm quite sure you don't subscribe to. This is where you look at your ancestors and parents for something that could explain genetics passed down.

    With an autoimmune condition, you might want to explore it with a specialist assuming you haven't exhausted the possibility. The diagnosis may not be as complicated as a syndrome with as many conditions as complaints. You have a diagnosis, the question is what can be done to treat it.

    Considering the percentage of insulin resistant people who are so because of a diet that is beyond unhealthy, your insulin resistance is rare. That aside, I wouldn't eliminate a dysfunction resulting from CF. The summary would be that it is uncommon to have insulin resistance. You're limited to the small population that is genetically predisposed, or have an autoimmune condition.

    In my mid twenties I was unaware of my prejudice against obese people. I'm talking morbidly obese or close to it. At a business meeting with several companies meeting for the first time, our Host's right hand man was huge. I honestly didn't realize my disdain was so obvious, because his boss found a well timed moment and called me on it. I was embarrassed that my feelings weren't lost on a man who was a gracious co-host. His boss went on to explain that helps barely qualified for the Navy because of his weight. His weight skyrocketed and the camp doctor restricted him to 600 Calories/day. He continued to gain weight and the disbelieving doctor placed him in the hospital with round the clock guards. He continued to gain at the same rate. The Navy was curious and he was a willing guinea pig. He had weight reduction surgery, literally stripping fat off his body. When bariatric surgery came along, he had it. I met him shortly after recovering from the surgery. It seems impossible but it was one of a million people who have a genetic predisposition towards an impossible metabolic condition.

    My apologies for not being more inclusive in my response. Like I said, these are topics worthy of their own discussions.

    LL
    yes genetics for sure and I have two autoimmune diseases
    ~ Simba15
    56 year old, diagnosed at age 50. Blessed to still be here!

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