PDA

View Full Version : when do we stop helping



Iamqueenofeverything
03-06-2007, 05:47 PM
will give you only the main points because my problem is to long to write about.
The facts are that there is a relative of mine that grew up with Godly parents, in a church and a Christian shool. He says he is a Christian and believes in God. this person hasn't grown spritiually. He has been battling with drugs, depression, and the need to be in control of his life. He keeps on lying to the people who are helping him and to his family. He can't hold a job. He expects everyone to treat him like he was in a hotel where he has maids and no one should care if he goes in and out. He thinks he should live in family and friends houses with out paying anything. He has to be told to help out.
He keeps on lying where he is going and the hours he is working. He has been evicted numours of times with apartments and from other friends and relatives houses. He didn't finish college. He treats the people who are trying to help him like maids and that we are being unreasonable. We have talked a number of times about how only God can help and that he should depend on him to help him live a peaceful life. We have taken him to churches that we will like. We have prayed with him. He has many, many chances to change his life around for the better but he just flushes them the toliet.
He is on the verge of being homeless amd he doesn't seem to care.
My question is when do we stop helping someone who doesn't want help? We did everything we could to help this person. We prayed with each other, talked about how god can help lead a better life, did several Bible Studies together, took him to two different churches, encouraged this person to go to meetings and get a mentor, have this person live in other relatives houses, let him work with other relatives, and so forth.. We have been doing this at least 5 years.
This person has been on a downward spiral for a little bit longer.
I know God says to help others but God says HE helps those who help themselves. God has said he will turn his back who turn their back to Him.
After we can do everything possible, when do we stop helping those who won't help themselves?

Iamqueenofeverything
03-06-2007, 05:47 PM
will give you only the main points because my problem is to long to write about.
The facts are that there is a relative of mine that grew up with Godly parents, in a church and a Christian shool. He says he is a Christian and believes in God. this person hasn't grown spritiually. He has been battling with drugs, depression, and the need to be in control of his life. He keeps on lying to the people who are helping him and to his family. He can't hold a job. He expects everyone to treat him like he was in a hotel where he has maids and no one should care if he goes in and out. He thinks he should live in family and friends houses with out paying anything. He has to be told to help out.
He keeps on lying where he is going and the hours he is working. He has been evicted numours of times with apartments and from other friends and relatives houses. He didn't finish college. He treats the people who are trying to help him like maids and that we are being unreasonable. We have talked a number of times about how only God can help and that he should depend on him to help him live a peaceful life. We have taken him to churches that we will like. We have prayed with him. He has many, many chances to change his life around for the better but he just flushes them the toliet.
He is on the verge of being homeless amd he doesn't seem to care.
My question is when do we stop helping someone who doesn't want help? We did everything we could to help this person. We prayed with each other, talked about how god can help lead a better life, did several Bible Studies together, took him to two different churches, encouraged this person to go to meetings and get a mentor, have this person live in other relatives houses, let him work with other relatives, and so forth.. We have been doing this at least 5 years.
This person has been on a downward spiral for a little bit longer.
I know God says to help others but God says HE helps those who help themselves. God has said he will turn his back who turn their back to Him.
After we can do everything possible, when do we stop helping those who won't help themselves?

Iamqueenofeverything
03-06-2007, 05:47 PM
will give you only the main points because my problem is to long to write about.
The facts are that there is a relative of mine that grew up with Godly parents, in a church and a Christian shool. He says he is a Christian and believes in God. this person hasn't grown spritiually. He has been battling with drugs, depression, and the need to be in control of his life. He keeps on lying to the people who are helping him and to his family. He can't hold a job. He expects everyone to treat him like he was in a hotel where he has maids and no one should care if he goes in and out. He thinks he should live in family and friends houses with out paying anything. He has to be told to help out.
He keeps on lying where he is going and the hours he is working. He has been evicted numours of times with apartments and from other friends and relatives houses. He didn't finish college. He treats the people who are trying to help him like maids and that we are being unreasonable. We have talked a number of times about how only God can help and that he should depend on him to help him live a peaceful life. We have taken him to churches that we will like. We have prayed with him. He has many, many chances to change his life around for the better but he just flushes them the toliet.
He is on the verge of being homeless amd he doesn't seem to care.
My question is when do we stop helping someone who doesn't want help? We did everything we could to help this person. We prayed with each other, talked about how god can help lead a better life, did several Bible Studies together, took him to two different churches, encouraged this person to go to meetings and get a mentor, have this person live in other relatives houses, let him work with other relatives, and so forth.. We have been doing this at least 5 years.
This person has been on a downward spiral for a little bit longer.
I know God says to help others but God says HE helps those who help themselves. God has said he will turn his back who turn their back to Him.
After we can do everything possible, when do we stop helping those who won't help themselves?

blindhearted
03-07-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm sorry your relative cannot see what he is doing to himself and the ppl that love him. As you said, you cant help someone who wont help themselves. Sometimes ppl have to hit bottom and loose it all before they wake up. Reguardless of what the decision is with this person...you can always pray for him. Which is what it sounds like you are doing anyway. That is the only advice I have, keep praying. God has a plan, even if we do not understand it, for everyone...including your relative. Everything happens for a reason.

blindhearted
03-07-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm sorry your relative cannot see what he is doing to himself and the ppl that love him. As you said, you cant help someone who wont help themselves. Sometimes ppl have to hit bottom and loose it all before they wake up. Reguardless of what the decision is with this person...you can always pray for him. Which is what it sounds like you are doing anyway. That is the only advice I have, keep praying. God has a plan, even if we do not understand it, for everyone...including your relative. Everything happens for a reason.

blindhearted
03-07-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm sorry your relative cannot see what he is doing to himself and the ppl that love him. As you said, you cant help someone who wont help themselves. Sometimes ppl have to hit bottom and loose it all before they wake up. Reguardless of what the decision is with this person...you can always pray for him. Which is what it sounds like you are doing anyway. That is the only advice I have, keep praying. God has a plan, even if we do not understand it, for everyone...including your relative. Everything happens for a reason.

Mockingbird
03-09-2007, 01:10 AM
Just one thing; God does not say He helps those who help themselves. That is not found anywhere in the Bible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly." Romans 5:6

For I remember when I was helpless, and not much different than your relative; indeed, in God's eyes there was no difference, but He still continued to hold His arms out to me, for God is faithful, even when we remain faithless.

Now, it is true that God turns His back on those who turn their back to Him, but if you read only a little further you will find God turns His back only temporarily, not so we will be forsaken, but rather saved through affliction.

Dealing with your question directly, there is scripture which you may find helpful.

"Now we command you brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus- Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you recieved from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order; if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus- Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15

"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17

Therefore, do not lose hope, but neither should you support wickedness. Because you mentioned he has problems with drugs and depression, I do not reccomend he be left on his own. Keep watch over him, yet do not support him, as much as it is possible. Of course, if God tells you to turn your back completely, you can have faith it will be safe to do so, but only if God instructs you. I will be praying for all of you.

Mockingbird
03-09-2007, 01:10 AM
Just one thing; God does not say He helps those who help themselves. That is not found anywhere in the Bible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly." Romans 5:6

For I remember when I was helpless, and not much different than your relative; indeed, in God's eyes there was no difference, but He still continued to hold His arms out to me, for God is faithful, even when we remain faithless.

Now, it is true that God turns His back on those who turn their back to Him, but if you read only a little further you will find God turns His back only temporarily, not so we will be forsaken, but rather saved through affliction.

Dealing with your question directly, there is scripture which you may find helpful.

"Now we command you brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus- Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you recieved from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order; if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus- Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15

"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17

Therefore, do not lose hope, but neither should you support wickedness. Because you mentioned he has problems with drugs and depression, I do not reccomend he be left on his own. Keep watch over him, yet do not support him, as much as it is possible. Of course, if God tells you to turn your back completely, you can have faith it will be safe to do so, but only if God instructs you. I will be praying for all of you.

Mockingbird
03-09-2007, 01:10 AM
Just one thing; God does not say He helps those who help themselves. That is not found anywhere in the Bible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly." Romans 5:6

For I remember when I was helpless, and not much different than your relative; indeed, in God's eyes there was no difference, but He still continued to hold His arms out to me, for God is faithful, even when we remain faithless.

Now, it is true that God turns His back on those who turn their back to Him, but if you read only a little further you will find God turns His back only temporarily, not so we will be forsaken, but rather saved through affliction.

Dealing with your question directly, there is scripture which you may find helpful.

"Now we command you brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus- Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you recieved from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order; if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus- Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15

"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17

Therefore, do not lose hope, but neither should you support wickedness. Because you mentioned he has problems with drugs and depression, I do not reccomend he be left on his own. Keep watch over him, yet do not support him, as much as it is possible. Of course, if God tells you to turn your back completely, you can have faith it will be safe to do so, but only if God instructs you. I will be praying for all of you.

sunkistdrinker
03-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Wow! I must say that is very good mockingbird. I have to agree with him Iamqueenofeverything. "God helps those who help themselves" is just a saying that someone made up. Its kind of like "cleanliness is next to godliness". It's just not so. God instructs us to bear with one another and look past ones weaknesses. Im not quite as good as mockingbird with quoting the exact scriptures, lol. It sounds like you are trying to "find" help for this person in many ways. Maybe it's you that can help him. Yes, God can help, but He uses us. The Bible uses this example; suppose you have some extra cash and someone comes to you with a need, say they need someone to pay their electric bill. Ok, you then can do one of a few things. A) you can tell the person you will pray for that need and then tell someone else in the church because they probably are just irresponsible for not being able to pay it themselves B) You can refer them to a program that may or may not help them or C) write the check. Which do you think God wants you to do? Remember, you have the extra cash, and the person came to YOU. Maybe God sent him your way. But I dont know the whole situation, so thats just my thinking. I will also pray for your situation.

sunkistdrinker
03-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Wow! I must say that is very good mockingbird. I have to agree with him Iamqueenofeverything. "God helps those who help themselves" is just a saying that someone made up. Its kind of like "cleanliness is next to godliness". It's just not so. God instructs us to bear with one another and look past ones weaknesses. Im not quite as good as mockingbird with quoting the exact scriptures, lol. It sounds like you are trying to "find" help for this person in many ways. Maybe it's you that can help him. Yes, God can help, but He uses us. The Bible uses this example; suppose you have some extra cash and someone comes to you with a need, say they need someone to pay their electric bill. Ok, you then can do one of a few things. A) you can tell the person you will pray for that need and then tell someone else in the church because they probably are just irresponsible for not being able to pay it themselves B) You can refer them to a program that may or may not help them or C) write the check. Which do you think God wants you to do? Remember, you have the extra cash, and the person came to YOU. Maybe God sent him your way. But I dont know the whole situation, so thats just my thinking. I will also pray for your situation.

sunkistdrinker
03-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Wow! I must say that is very good mockingbird. I have to agree with him Iamqueenofeverything. "God helps those who help themselves" is just a saying that someone made up. Its kind of like "cleanliness is next to godliness". It's just not so. God instructs us to bear with one another and look past ones weaknesses. Im not quite as good as mockingbird with quoting the exact scriptures, lol. It sounds like you are trying to "find" help for this person in many ways. Maybe it's you that can help him. Yes, God can help, but He uses us. The Bible uses this example; suppose you have some extra cash and someone comes to you with a need, say they need someone to pay their electric bill. Ok, you then can do one of a few things. A) you can tell the person you will pray for that need and then tell someone else in the church because they probably are just irresponsible for not being able to pay it themselves B) You can refer them to a program that may or may not help them or C) write the check. Which do you think God wants you to do? Remember, you have the extra cash, and the person came to YOU. Maybe God sent him your way. But I dont know the whole situation, so thats just my thinking. I will also pray for your situation.

markgw
03-12-2007, 05:08 AM
well, I'm a very poor excuse for a believer (ask anyone who knows me!)
but my answer to your Question " when do we stop helping " would be " A Long Time Ago"
Someone pointed out to me recently two implicit components of God's Love are 'discipline' and 'justice' (they cannot be separated from it).
I mean, I may not be very charitable,
but possibly you have been shielding this guy from the 'discipline' side of God's Love.
of course, I'm not suggesting shunning him, just stopping carrying him.

markgw
03-12-2007, 05:08 AM
well, I'm a very poor excuse for a believer (ask anyone who knows me!)
but my answer to your Question " when do we stop helping " would be " A Long Time Ago"
Someone pointed out to me recently two implicit components of God's Love are 'discipline' and 'justice' (they cannot be separated from it).
I mean, I may not be very charitable,
but possibly you have been shielding this guy from the 'discipline' side of God's Love.
of course, I'm not suggesting shunning him, just stopping carrying him.

markgw
03-12-2007, 05:08 AM
well, I'm a very poor excuse for a believer (ask anyone who knows me!)
but my answer to your Question " when do we stop helping " would be " A Long Time Ago"
Someone pointed out to me recently two implicit components of God's Love are 'discipline' and 'justice' (they cannot be separated from it).
I mean, I may not be very charitable,
but possibly you have been shielding this guy from the 'discipline' side of God's Love.
of course, I'm not suggesting shunning him, just stopping carrying him.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 04:32 PM
even if we do it 1000 times we are to never stop helping, loving, or forgiving. sometimes we may think God is trying to teach someone else when the lesson to be learned is really are own.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 04:32 PM
even if we do it 1000 times we are to never stop helping, loving, or forgiving. sometimes we may think God is trying to teach someone else when the lesson to be learned is really are own.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 04:32 PM
even if we do it 1000 times we are to never stop helping, loving, or forgiving. sometimes we may think God is trying to teach someone else when the lesson to be learned is really are own.

blackchameleon
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
it must frustrate the hell out of everyone trying to help. maybe his spiritual healing lay elsewhere and not with Christianity... seems to me he has been given only one option for help. there are many many different types of "spiritual" faith, just because someone believes the bibles contents is God's word does not make it truth. "something does not need to be truth for people to believe in it". i have witnessed many people force fed Christianity as a way to turn their life around only to become fattened with false teaching then fleeced of their money weekly all in the name of God. people are suffering terribly all over this globe daily, needing water, food and clothing to name three essentials to life yet christian nations continue to exploit these nations. the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer no doubt. religion sucks sooo much money out of people. take a look at the bigger picture, where do you see youself?, suffering with no food or water for your little children, or with enormous wealth in comparison with the needy? now ask yourself what your Jesus message was all about... remove your blinkers and truly look. Jesus message was simple, Constantine and his canon made it complicated. the bible is no more the creators word than the korans. cheers Blacky

blackchameleon
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
it must frustrate the hell out of everyone trying to help. maybe his spiritual healing lay elsewhere and not with Christianity... seems to me he has been given only one option for help. there are many many different types of "spiritual" faith, just because someone believes the bibles contents is God's word does not make it truth. "something does not need to be truth for people to believe in it". i have witnessed many people force fed Christianity as a way to turn their life around only to become fattened with false teaching then fleeced of their money weekly all in the name of God. people are suffering terribly all over this globe daily, needing water, food and clothing to name three essentials to life yet christian nations continue to exploit these nations. the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer no doubt. religion sucks sooo much money out of people. take a look at the bigger picture, where do you see youself?, suffering with no food or water for your little children, or with enormous wealth in comparison with the needy? now ask yourself what your Jesus message was all about... remove your blinkers and truly look. Jesus message was simple, Constantine and his canon made it complicated. the bible is no more the creators word than the korans. cheers Blacky

blackchameleon
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
it must frustrate the hell out of everyone trying to help. maybe his spiritual healing lay elsewhere and not with Christianity... seems to me he has been given only one option for help. there are many many different types of "spiritual" faith, just because someone believes the bibles contents is God's word does not make it truth. "something does not need to be truth for people to believe in it". i have witnessed many people force fed Christianity as a way to turn their life around only to become fattened with false teaching then fleeced of their money weekly all in the name of God. people are suffering terribly all over this globe daily, needing water, food and clothing to name three essentials to life yet christian nations continue to exploit these nations. the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer no doubt. religion sucks sooo much money out of people. take a look at the bigger picture, where do you see youself?, suffering with no food or water for your little children, or with enormous wealth in comparison with the needy? now ask yourself what your Jesus message was all about... remove your blinkers and truly look. Jesus message was simple, Constantine and his canon made it complicated. the bible is no more the creators word than the korans. cheers Blacky