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blackchameleon
10-02-2006, 12:06 PM
Mockingbird and Allie i hope you both reply to this post. what i would like to know from you both, and i accept you are both genuine in your faith and believe you think you know the truth is firstly, Allie , why do you not accept Jesus as being the prophesied (sp) mesiah. and secondly Mockingbird why you do accept Jesus as being the mesiah? forgive any spelling errors as i have partaken of the evil fermented grape this evening!! and lastly, are there any Islam followers out there??? thanks in advance BC

blackchameleon
10-02-2006, 12:06 PM
Mockingbird and Allie i hope you both reply to this post. what i would like to know from you both, and i accept you are both genuine in your faith and believe you think you know the truth is firstly, Allie , why do you not accept Jesus as being the prophesied (sp) mesiah. and secondly Mockingbird why you do accept Jesus as being the mesiah? forgive any spelling errors as i have partaken of the evil fermented grape this evening!! and lastly, are there any Islam followers out there??? thanks in advance BC

blackchameleon
10-02-2006, 12:06 PM
Mockingbird and Allie i hope you both reply to this post. what i would like to know from you both, and i accept you are both genuine in your faith and believe you think you know the truth is firstly, Allie , why do you not accept Jesus as being the prophesied (sp) mesiah. and secondly Mockingbird why you do accept Jesus as being the mesiah? forgive any spelling errors as i have partaken of the evil fermented grape this evening!! and lastly, are there any Islam followers out there??? thanks in advance BC

Allie
10-02-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't accept Jesus as being the messiah because I don't feel he fulfilled the prophecies of the messiah. The temple was not rebuilt, The jews did not reclaim thier homeland, peace was not obtained. Some of the things they have claimed were 'prophecies' were not considered prophecies until Jesus came around, and they decided they were because they sounded like Jesus. Or in one case, it wasn't a prophecy, and the hebrew has been incorrectly translated.....it means "young woman" not "virgin".

Allie
10-02-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't accept Jesus as being the messiah because I don't feel he fulfilled the prophecies of the messiah. The temple was not rebuilt, The jews did not reclaim thier homeland, peace was not obtained. Some of the things they have claimed were 'prophecies' were not considered prophecies until Jesus came around, and they decided they were because they sounded like Jesus. Or in one case, it wasn't a prophecy, and the hebrew has been incorrectly translated.....it means "young woman" not "virgin".

Allie
10-02-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't accept Jesus as being the messiah because I don't feel he fulfilled the prophecies of the messiah. The temple was not rebuilt, The jews did not reclaim thier homeland, peace was not obtained. Some of the things they have claimed were 'prophecies' were not considered prophecies until Jesus came around, and they decided they were because they sounded like Jesus. Or in one case, it wasn't a prophecy, and the hebrew has been incorrectly translated.....it means "young woman" not "virgin".

Mockingbird
10-02-2006, 09:10 PM
And we have a different understanding of scripture. However, that is not the reason I believe.

If you want to understand why I have faith, you must first understand my faith, of which you have shown no understanding. If you did, you would understand what it means when it says, "It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

Mockingbird
10-02-2006, 09:10 PM
And we have a different understanding of scripture. However, that is not the reason I believe.

If you want to understand why I have faith, you must first understand my faith, of which you have shown no understanding. If you did, you would understand what it means when it says, "It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

Mockingbird
10-02-2006, 09:10 PM
And we have a different understanding of scripture. However, that is not the reason I believe.

If you want to understand why I have faith, you must first understand my faith, of which you have shown no understanding. If you did, you would understand what it means when it says, "It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

blackchameleon
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
thanks Allie, i appreciate your response. Mockingbird, you avoided my question.

blackchameleon
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
thanks Allie, i appreciate your response. Mockingbird, you avoided my question.

blackchameleon
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
thanks Allie, i appreciate your response. Mockingbird, you avoided my question.

Mockingbird
10-04-2006, 01:25 PM
No I didn't, you simply failed to understand my answer.

"It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." Romans 9:16

In other words, I did not come to believe because of anything I did, or thought, or decided. It was God who opened my eyes, not myself. I am not talking about a devine revelation, but simple understanding and faith.

Therefore, I have faith because God gave me faith, but you do not understand this, so no answer I can give you will be sufficient for you.

Mockingbird
10-04-2006, 01:25 PM
No I didn't, you simply failed to understand my answer.

"It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." Romans 9:16

In other words, I did not come to believe because of anything I did, or thought, or decided. It was God who opened my eyes, not myself. I am not talking about a devine revelation, but simple understanding and faith.

Therefore, I have faith because God gave me faith, but you do not understand this, so no answer I can give you will be sufficient for you.

Mockingbird
10-04-2006, 01:25 PM
No I didn't, you simply failed to understand my answer.

"It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." Romans 9:16

In other words, I did not come to believe because of anything I did, or thought, or decided. It was God who opened my eyes, not myself. I am not talking about a devine revelation, but simple understanding and faith.

Therefore, I have faith because God gave me faith, but you do not understand this, so no answer I can give you will be sufficient for you.

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:45 PM
you have faith because God gave you faith? in what? Allie has faith because her God gave her faith too then, only your faiths differ immensly. who has the truth and who does not? see my point? you are decieved mockingbird and it is sad.

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:45 PM
you have faith because God gave you faith? in what? Allie has faith because her God gave her faith too then, only your faiths differ immensly. who has the truth and who does not? see my point? you are decieved mockingbird and it is sad.

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:45 PM
you have faith because God gave you faith? in what? Allie has faith because her God gave her faith too then, only your faiths differ immensly. who has the truth and who does not? see my point? you are decieved mockingbird and it is sad.

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
oops, i should have said "i believe you are decieved", i may be wrong, i may be right, i just didnt want to sound like i am an authority on this.BC

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
oops, i should have said "i believe you are decieved", i may be wrong, i may be right, i just didnt want to sound like i am an authority on this.BC

blackchameleon
10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
oops, i should have said "i believe you are decieved", i may be wrong, i may be right, i just didnt want to sound like i am an authority on this.BC

Mockingbird
10-07-2006, 11:35 PM
But you already have claimed to be an authority.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i lived as a born again christian without questioning my teaching just as mockingbird and chaggie do. eventually over 15 years the scales were removed from my eyes through researching the bible and its origins as i had huge doubts. it is put together by a group of like minded men and funded by Constantine who was a nutter.</end quote></div>

Or are you willing to admit you may be wrong about that as well; that the history you found may not be entirely correct?

Mockingbird
10-07-2006, 11:35 PM
But you already have claimed to be an authority.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i lived as a born again christian without questioning my teaching just as mockingbird and chaggie do. eventually over 15 years the scales were removed from my eyes through researching the bible and its origins as i had huge doubts. it is put together by a group of like minded men and funded by Constantine who was a nutter.</end quote></div>

Or are you willing to admit you may be wrong about that as well; that the history you found may not be entirely correct?

Mockingbird
10-07-2006, 11:35 PM
But you already have claimed to be an authority.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i lived as a born again christian without questioning my teaching just as mockingbird and chaggie do. eventually over 15 years the scales were removed from my eyes through researching the bible and its origins as i had huge doubts. it is put together by a group of like minded men and funded by Constantine who was a nutter.</end quote></div>

Or are you willing to admit you may be wrong about that as well; that the history you found may not be entirely correct?

JennifersHope
10-12-2006, 12:17 AM
Hi,

I will tell you why I have faith in Jesus.. Not that you were asking me... I do believe Jesus fulfilled scripture.. I believe the temple of God is inside of each one of us and is no longer a physical structure.... I believe that God sent back to us his spirit that lives inside of us and guides us.

I don't base my faith on the scripture though I do believe the scripture is God breathed.. but mostly I believe in Jesus because of experiences I have had with him....(not great because faith would be better but anyway) .I was skeptical of the whole thing but through my life, as experiences happen it became impossible for me to deny...

Jennifer

JennifersHope
10-12-2006, 12:17 AM
Hi,

I will tell you why I have faith in Jesus.. Not that you were asking me... I do believe Jesus fulfilled scripture.. I believe the temple of God is inside of each one of us and is no longer a physical structure.... I believe that God sent back to us his spirit that lives inside of us and guides us.

I don't base my faith on the scripture though I do believe the scripture is God breathed.. but mostly I believe in Jesus because of experiences I have had with him....(not great because faith would be better but anyway) .I was skeptical of the whole thing but through my life, as experiences happen it became impossible for me to deny...

Jennifer

JennifersHope
10-12-2006, 12:17 AM
Hi,

I will tell you why I have faith in Jesus.. Not that you were asking me... I do believe Jesus fulfilled scripture.. I believe the temple of God is inside of each one of us and is no longer a physical structure.... I believe that God sent back to us his spirit that lives inside of us and guides us.

I don't base my faith on the scripture though I do believe the scripture is God breathed.. but mostly I believe in Jesus because of experiences I have had with him....(not great because faith would be better but anyway) .I was skeptical of the whole thing but through my life, as experiences happen it became impossible for me to deny...

Jennifer

flyfree
10-26-2006, 05:14 AM
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
&nbsp;Does anyone agree with me?&nbsp;

flyfree
10-26-2006, 05:14 AM
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
&nbsp;Does anyone agree with me?&nbsp;

flyfree
10-26-2006, 05:14 AM
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
&nbsp;Does anyone agree with me?&nbsp;

Scarlett81
10-26-2006, 04:35 PM
Since this is just a sharing of views and not a debate, I'll explain why I do believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

To believe that he is firstly, I think you have to first believe that the Bible is a valid book from God. If you don't, then its hard to explain to someone scriptures that back it up. Anyway, There are Bible prophecies that I as a Jehovah's Witness believe-In the book of Micah 5:2, 700 years before Jesus birth, it foretold that the messiah would be born in Bethlehem. In Daniel 9:25, centuries before Jesus birth it says the year the Messiah would arrive-29 C.E, which was the year Jesus was baptized and therefore as the appointed Messiah. It was after his baptism that he began his preaching work, so it was basically the beginning of his Messiahship.
The other and biggest reason for me is that from Abraham to Jacob to Moses, to David, all these people were promised that a Messiah would come through their family blood line, and that family line from Adam to Joseph the earthly father of Jesus is in the Bible in several places, at Matthew chapter 1, Luke chapter 3, and Genesis and Ruth give the line from Adam to David to verify the family line stated in Matthew and Luke.

Also, I don't believe that the Bible teaches, (and again this is just my viewpoint, I'm not contesting anyone else) that the kingdom is prophecied that Jesus would bring was literal at that time. It's recorded in the Bible that some of his followers alive at that time tried to make him the king and he refused, b/c he was talking about a spiritual kingdom. He did establish a new kingdom, being Christianity. But the Kingdom he preached about was a prophetic one that we believe is still coming for the earth.

So that's why I feel that way.

Anybody else????<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Scarlett81
10-26-2006, 04:35 PM
Since this is just a sharing of views and not a debate, I'll explain why I do believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

To believe that he is firstly, I think you have to first believe that the Bible is a valid book from God. If you don't, then its hard to explain to someone scriptures that back it up. Anyway, There are Bible prophecies that I as a Jehovah's Witness believe-In the book of Micah 5:2, 700 years before Jesus birth, it foretold that the messiah would be born in Bethlehem. In Daniel 9:25, centuries before Jesus birth it says the year the Messiah would arrive-29 C.E, which was the year Jesus was baptized and therefore as the appointed Messiah. It was after his baptism that he began his preaching work, so it was basically the beginning of his Messiahship.
The other and biggest reason for me is that from Abraham to Jacob to Moses, to David, all these people were promised that a Messiah would come through their family blood line, and that family line from Adam to Joseph the earthly father of Jesus is in the Bible in several places, at Matthew chapter 1, Luke chapter 3, and Genesis and Ruth give the line from Adam to David to verify the family line stated in Matthew and Luke.

Also, I don't believe that the Bible teaches, (and again this is just my viewpoint, I'm not contesting anyone else) that the kingdom is prophecied that Jesus would bring was literal at that time. It's recorded in the Bible that some of his followers alive at that time tried to make him the king and he refused, b/c he was talking about a spiritual kingdom. He did establish a new kingdom, being Christianity. But the Kingdom he preached about was a prophetic one that we believe is still coming for the earth.

So that's why I feel that way.

Anybody else????<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Scarlett81
10-26-2006, 04:35 PM
Since this is just a sharing of views and not a debate, I'll explain why I do believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

To believe that he is firstly, I think you have to first believe that the Bible is a valid book from God. If you don't, then its hard to explain to someone scriptures that back it up. Anyway, There are Bible prophecies that I as a Jehovah's Witness believe-In the book of Micah 5:2, 700 years before Jesus birth, it foretold that the messiah would be born in Bethlehem. In Daniel 9:25, centuries before Jesus birth it says the year the Messiah would arrive-29 C.E, which was the year Jesus was baptized and therefore as the appointed Messiah. It was after his baptism that he began his preaching work, so it was basically the beginning of his Messiahship.
The other and biggest reason for me is that from Abraham to Jacob to Moses, to David, all these people were promised that a Messiah would come through their family blood line, and that family line from Adam to Joseph the earthly father of Jesus is in the Bible in several places, at Matthew chapter 1, Luke chapter 3, and Genesis and Ruth give the line from Adam to David to verify the family line stated in Matthew and Luke.

Also, I don't believe that the Bible teaches, (and again this is just my viewpoint, I'm not contesting anyone else) that the kingdom is prophecied that Jesus would bring was literal at that time. It's recorded in the Bible that some of his followers alive at that time tried to make him the king and he refused, b/c he was talking about a spiritual kingdom. He did establish a new kingdom, being Christianity. But the Kingdom he preached about was a prophetic one that we believe is still coming for the earth.

So that's why I feel that way.

Anybody else????<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

flyfree
10-26-2006, 09:50 PM
How is it possible to believe that the bible is a valid book from
God? It is a known fact that the books which make up the new
testament were picked and edited many many times throughout history
by kings and religious leaders so it sounded they way they wanted
it too. Also, how is it that Jesus was Baptized in 29 C.E when
Jesus was born Jewish and there is no such thing as a baptism in
Judaism? Jesus was a religious and practicing Jew&nbsp;and through
his preaching of good morals and riotousness to the creator, he
single handedly sparked the match which let to the expanding flame
we now call Christianity. His preaching was somewhat radical for
the time and the Romans felt that it was a threat to the empire
which led his crucifixion. How does this mean he fulfilled the
place of the promised Messiah?

flyfree
10-26-2006, 09:50 PM
How is it possible to believe that the bible is a valid book from
God? It is a known fact that the books which make up the new
testament were picked and edited many many times throughout history
by kings and religious leaders so it sounded they way they wanted
it too. Also, how is it that Jesus was Baptized in 29 C.E when
Jesus was born Jewish and there is no such thing as a baptism in
Judaism? Jesus was a religious and practicing Jew&nbsp;and through
his preaching of good morals and riotousness to the creator, he
single handedly sparked the match which let to the expanding flame
we now call Christianity. His preaching was somewhat radical for
the time and the Romans felt that it was a threat to the empire
which led his crucifixion. How does this mean he fulfilled the
place of the promised Messiah?

flyfree
10-26-2006, 09:50 PM
How is it possible to believe that the bible is a valid book from
God? It is a known fact that the books which make up the new
testament were picked and edited many many times throughout history
by kings and religious leaders so it sounded they way they wanted
it too. Also, how is it that Jesus was Baptized in 29 C.E when
Jesus was born Jewish and there is no such thing as a baptism in
Judaism? Jesus was a religious and practicing Jew&nbsp;and through
his preaching of good morals and riotousness to the creator, he
single handedly sparked the match which let to the expanding flame
we now call Christianity. His preaching was somewhat radical for
the time and the Romans felt that it was a threat to the empire
which led his crucifixion. How does this mean he fulfilled the
place of the promised Messiah?

Scarlett81
10-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start a debate. I was just sharing my views since that was what the thread was about.
And my point about the validity of the Bible was that I can't reason with someone on my beliefs b/c I'm quoting the Bible-so if you don't believe the Bible then you won't believe my reasoning.
Some of the things you asked are so deep we could debate them for hours, but I'll comment on the Bible part and the baptism part. The Bible is the only book that has standed thousands of centuries. And no, there is no proof that all Bibles were changed by kings over the years. In fact according to most historians, the most common thing that rulers tried to do was destroy the Bible, all the Bible burnings of the middle ages, and burnings of christians. Again, this could all turn into a debate but from the research I have done, thats what I learned and firmly believe is true.
As far as Jesus baptism, John-Jesus cousin, was a Jew and wandering baptizer for years even before Jesus was preaching. And Jesus baptism is recorded in the Bible. But, you have to believe the Bible to believe that, again.
I think most of the other questions about Jesus establishing the kindgom I answered above. It wasn't meant to be a literal kingdom, or change on the earth. The Messiahship brought a new religion basically to earth, and was meant to do away with the Mosaic law.
Again, my comments didn't mean offense to anyone, I was just sharing my views.

Scarlett81
10-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start a debate. I was just sharing my views since that was what the thread was about.
And my point about the validity of the Bible was that I can't reason with someone on my beliefs b/c I'm quoting the Bible-so if you don't believe the Bible then you won't believe my reasoning.
Some of the things you asked are so deep we could debate them for hours, but I'll comment on the Bible part and the baptism part. The Bible is the only book that has standed thousands of centuries. And no, there is no proof that all Bibles were changed by kings over the years. In fact according to most historians, the most common thing that rulers tried to do was destroy the Bible, all the Bible burnings of the middle ages, and burnings of christians. Again, this could all turn into a debate but from the research I have done, thats what I learned and firmly believe is true.
As far as Jesus baptism, John-Jesus cousin, was a Jew and wandering baptizer for years even before Jesus was preaching. And Jesus baptism is recorded in the Bible. But, you have to believe the Bible to believe that, again.
I think most of the other questions about Jesus establishing the kindgom I answered above. It wasn't meant to be a literal kingdom, or change on the earth. The Messiahship brought a new religion basically to earth, and was meant to do away with the Mosaic law.
Again, my comments didn't mean offense to anyone, I was just sharing my views.

Scarlett81
10-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start a debate. I was just sharing my views since that was what the thread was about.
And my point about the validity of the Bible was that I can't reason with someone on my beliefs b/c I'm quoting the Bible-so if you don't believe the Bible then you won't believe my reasoning.
Some of the things you asked are so deep we could debate them for hours, but I'll comment on the Bible part and the baptism part. The Bible is the only book that has standed thousands of centuries. And no, there is no proof that all Bibles were changed by kings over the years. In fact according to most historians, the most common thing that rulers tried to do was destroy the Bible, all the Bible burnings of the middle ages, and burnings of christians. Again, this could all turn into a debate but from the research I have done, thats what I learned and firmly believe is true.
As far as Jesus baptism, John-Jesus cousin, was a Jew and wandering baptizer for years even before Jesus was preaching. And Jesus baptism is recorded in the Bible. But, you have to believe the Bible to believe that, again.
I think most of the other questions about Jesus establishing the kindgom I answered above. It wasn't meant to be a literal kingdom, or change on the earth. The Messiahship brought a new religion basically to earth, and was meant to do away with the Mosaic law.
Again, my comments didn't mean offense to anyone, I was just sharing my views.

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I respect what you believe and I understand why it is you believe
what you do. I didn't mean to disrespect your beliefs in anyway and
I certainly did not mean to come off rudely. As long as you are
happy with what you believe and are content, then i see no reason
to listen to intolerant people. We do disagree on some key points
but those disagreements should make us stronger people, not throw
us into argumentative chaos.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;- David<br>
<br>

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I respect what you believe and I understand why it is you believe
what you do. I didn't mean to disrespect your beliefs in anyway and
I certainly did not mean to come off rudely. As long as you are
happy with what you believe and are content, then i see no reason
to listen to intolerant people. We do disagree on some key points
but those disagreements should make us stronger people, not throw
us into argumentative chaos.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;- David<br>
<br>

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I respect what you believe and I understand why it is you believe
what you do. I didn't mean to disrespect your beliefs in anyway and
I certainly did not mean to come off rudely. As long as you are
happy with what you believe and are content, then i see no reason
to listen to intolerant people. We do disagree on some key points
but those disagreements should make us stronger people, not throw
us into argumentative chaos.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;- David<br>
<br>

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:52 PM
.....................?

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:52 PM
.....................?

flyfree
10-27-2006, 04:52 PM
.....................?

Scarlett81
10-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Ok David, no prob at all. I was just making sure b/c I never want to come across as preachy or defensive. I am very serious and passionate about my faith, but I never want to come across as "all right" or above anyone. That's why I said what I said above.
Glad to see we agree on it not being neccesary to go into argumentative chaos!-So many people avoid this subject b/c of that, but I believe it can be brought to the table in a respectful way like any other topic.

Scarlett81
10-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Ok David, no prob at all. I was just making sure b/c I never want to come across as preachy or defensive. I am very serious and passionate about my faith, but I never want to come across as "all right" or above anyone. That's why I said what I said above.
Glad to see we agree on it not being neccesary to go into argumentative chaos!-So many people avoid this subject b/c of that, but I believe it can be brought to the table in a respectful way like any other topic.

Scarlett81
10-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Ok David, no prob at all. I was just making sure b/c I never want to come across as preachy or defensive. I am very serious and passionate about my faith, but I never want to come across as "all right" or above anyone. That's why I said what I said above.
Glad to see we agree on it not being neccesary to go into argumentative chaos!-So many people avoid this subject b/c of that, but I believe it can be brought to the table in a respectful way like any other topic.

flyfree
10-31-2006, 02:10 AM
King of kings, Lord of Lords

flyfree
10-31-2006, 02:10 AM
King of kings, Lord of Lords

flyfree
10-31-2006, 02:10 AM
King of kings, Lord of Lords

Mockingbird
11-02-2006, 06:29 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>flyfree</b></i>
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
*Does anyone agree with me?*</end quote></div>

I was going to ignore this question, but tonight I was woken at 1 AM and felt led to respond to it. However, I must make it clear it is not for this reason I believe, but for the reason already stated above.

Being Jewish, you believe you are saved only by righteousness. Jesus never contradicted that, for He said, "Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." and "For I say to you unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and the pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17,20

However, as Christians, we say we are saved by faith because we recognize there is no one who can attain this level of righteousness on their own. Jesus did not die on the cross so that past sins could be forgiven; that would be pointless, for God already had the power to forgive sins. For example, Ezekiel 33:14-16 says, "But when I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without commiting iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live."

Christ died on the cross, rather, to free us from sin, that is, to cleanse us from unrighteousness and give us the power to turn and remain free from sin. As Christians, we say we are saved by faith because it is only through our faith we are open to recieve the freedom from sin that Christ has given us, and only through that power we are able to attain the righteousness which is required for us to be saved.

It is for this reason that Christ is absolutely essential, for both Jews and Christians alike. You say you are Jewish, great! I only ask that you seek righteousness from God, and not from yourselves. I am not even asking you to believe in Jesus, but only God whom you already believe in. After all, God is the only one who knows what is truly righteous and what is not, so shouldn't we all be looking to Him in the first place?

Do not tell me, therefore, "I will have my views and you can have yours," but rather, "This is what God has given me, so this is how I live." You say no one can know if the other is right or wrong; I say God knows, so look to Him.

Mockingbird
11-02-2006, 06:29 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>flyfree</b></i>
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
*Does anyone agree with me?*</end quote></div>

I was going to ignore this question, but tonight I was woken at 1 AM and felt led to respond to it. However, I must make it clear it is not for this reason I believe, but for the reason already stated above.

Being Jewish, you believe you are saved only by righteousness. Jesus never contradicted that, for He said, "Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." and "For I say to you unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and the pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17,20

However, as Christians, we say we are saved by faith because we recognize there is no one who can attain this level of righteousness on their own. Jesus did not die on the cross so that past sins could be forgiven; that would be pointless, for God already had the power to forgive sins. For example, Ezekiel 33:14-16 says, "But when I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without commiting iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live."

Christ died on the cross, rather, to free us from sin, that is, to cleanse us from unrighteousness and give us the power to turn and remain free from sin. As Christians, we say we are saved by faith because it is only through our faith we are open to recieve the freedom from sin that Christ has given us, and only through that power we are able to attain the righteousness which is required for us to be saved.

It is for this reason that Christ is absolutely essential, for both Jews and Christians alike. You say you are Jewish, great! I only ask that you seek righteousness from God, and not from yourselves. I am not even asking you to believe in Jesus, but only God whom you already believe in. After all, God is the only one who knows what is truly righteous and what is not, so shouldn't we all be looking to Him in the first place?

Do not tell me, therefore, "I will have my views and you can have yours," but rather, "This is what God has given me, so this is how I live." You say no one can know if the other is right or wrong; I say God knows, so look to Him.

Mockingbird
11-02-2006, 06:29 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>flyfree</b></i>
When the Messiah comes....we will ask him, Are you coming? or, Are
you returning? If he says he is coming, then we will all be Jewish.
If he says he is returning, then we will all be Christians. Until
that day, no one will know if the other is right or wrong..
*Does anyone agree with me?*</end quote></div>

I was going to ignore this question, but tonight I was woken at 1 AM and felt led to respond to it. However, I must make it clear it is not for this reason I believe, but for the reason already stated above.

Being Jewish, you believe you are saved only by righteousness. Jesus never contradicted that, for He said, "Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." and "For I say to you unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and the pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17,20

However, as Christians, we say we are saved by faith because we recognize there is no one who can attain this level of righteousness on their own. Jesus did not die on the cross so that past sins could be forgiven; that would be pointless, for God already had the power to forgive sins. For example, Ezekiel 33:14-16 says, "But when I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without commiting iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live."

Christ died on the cross, rather, to free us from sin, that is, to cleanse us from unrighteousness and give us the power to turn and remain free from sin. As Christians, we say we are saved by faith because it is only through our faith we are open to recieve the freedom from sin that Christ has given us, and only through that power we are able to attain the righteousness which is required for us to be saved.

It is for this reason that Christ is absolutely essential, for both Jews and Christians alike. You say you are Jewish, great! I only ask that you seek righteousness from God, and not from yourselves. I am not even asking you to believe in Jesus, but only God whom you already believe in. After all, God is the only one who knows what is truly righteous and what is not, so shouldn't we all be looking to Him in the first place?

Do not tell me, therefore, "I will have my views and you can have yours," but rather, "This is what God has given me, so this is how I live." You say no one can know if the other is right or wrong; I say God knows, so look to Him.