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blackchameleon
08-14-2006, 05:30 AM
WOW, after all my thinking , wondering , pondering and trying to
fit myself into a "religion" i have stumbled across a
"term" that fits my belief system!!  look up
"Deism Defined" if you are interested in learning about
truth. i clicked on the "Deism v Christianity &
Atheism" link at the bottom and it all made perfect sense to
me! cheers Blackchameleon

kayleesgrandma
08-14-2006, 01:01 PM
Well, I went and printed out the stuff you mentioned--will look it over at home in my "leisure" time. I don't know enough about it, looks interesting. I bet Mockingbird will have something to say, he seems pretty knowledgeable. We could get an interesting debate going.

blackchameleon
08-14-2006, 10:11 PM
good one Kaylees grandma, sorry i got frozen out last night and
then had a little incident at our motel! sheesh, a peeping tom
would you believe upsetting other guests!. i love looking at all
sorts of info on spiritual stuff, i found a nice little saying
yesterday that suits my way of thinking. "he that is opposed
to inquiry is not a friend to truth". i liked that.i hope many
people put their "two bobs" worth into this as there are
many intelligent people on here with many various beliefs, im
interested to hear what they all have to say. wink BC  

Mockingbird
08-16-2006, 02:40 PM
You said earlier that you wonder if man created God. Well, when man searches for a belief system that fits his beliefs, as you have done, then you are right, man does create god. And, in this context, faith is indeed just another term for hope.

However, as Paul says, <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached to me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus//Christ.
For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it; and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions. But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace was pleased to reveal His son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus [where God told him to go].
Galatians 1:11-17</end quote></div>

Paul, too, had found a belief system which fit his beliefs, and it was working out great for him. However, as we read in Acts 9, God shows up and shows Paul (who was then called Saul) that He does not fit into Paul's beliefs, but rather Paul needed to fit his beliefs to God. It is in this context that Faith cannot merely be defined by hope, but it is something which comes from God, to define us and guide us, instead of us defining faith and guiding ourselves.

I am sure you will ask, how is it that I or anyone else can know if my faith is in truth coming from God and not myself? Or, in other words, how is it I know my God is not created by man? As Paul says, <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10 </end quote></div>

And also, John, <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus//Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from this world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
1 John 4:1-6</end quote></div>

Deism is a religion based on reason and logic. That does, indeed make a lot of sense. However, is it based on the reason and logic of God, or the reason and logic of man (that is, the world)? By the admission of deism itself, it is the reason and logic of man. The logic of man is counted wise by this world, even though the logic of one man contradicts the next. However, the logic of God (that is, the Word of God) is counted foolish by the world, and the world is deaf to it, but we who are from God gain understanding.

<b>Edit:</b> Also, look up the first two chapters of 1 Corinthians, esp 2:5 "so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God"

blackchameleon
08-21-2006, 12:01 AM
Gday mockingbird, i thought you would chime in a response!. if you
are happy following the teachings of the bible you have and believe
the revelations given to people like Paul then hey , go for it!. I
personally believe i am every bit as capable as anyone in history
to discern what is fact or fiction. its interesting to me that you
seem confused into thinking you are following the wisdom of God by
following the scriptures in your bible -- all written by mortal
men. but hey mockingbird, if being a born again christian and
following the teachings of all the enlightened men that wrote your
bible works for you and you harm no others then giddy up, live that
life! i tried for 15 years to pigeon hole myself into pentecostal
style faith, eventually i felt it was a deception and truth and
peace for me lay elsewhere, the fear of hell that was preached at
me was real and it took along time to feel comfortable about saying
i was no longer a born again christian. i personally believe
pentecostal style religion is brainwashing and it nearly worked on
me, the peace i now feel is wonderful and i feel liberated from my
bondage. cheers, Blackchameleon.<br>
ps, do you have cf &nbsp;mockingbird?<br>
&nbsp;

Mockingbird
08-21-2006, 01:51 PM
Just as it says, "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

He who has ears, let him hear.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
"You will keep on hearing, but will not understand;
You will keep on seeing, but will not percieve;
For the heart of this people has become dull,
With their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes,
Otherwise they would see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I would heal them."
But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what they could not see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has benn sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately recieves it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the decietfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. And the one whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.
Matthew 13:11-23 </end quote></div>

Cath
03-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I saw your post & I hope you don't mind my putting in my thoughts here. I really appreciated what you said about you liking to discuss such matters. Perhaps somthing I say may help you view the Bible as a source you can trust.

None of us like our words twisted. We can write something accurate, but have someone paraphrase what we said & change the meaning. That has happened with the Bible. It is "INTERPETATIONS" that are at fault, not what was written.

The Bible WAS inspired by God. What does that mean? That God directed the writing, much as a businessman uses a secretary to write letters for him. The idea of receiving messages from someone out in space should not surprise us. Even humans have sent messages and pictures from the moon. How did they do it? By using laws that originated long ago with God himself. It contains information that could not possibly have come from a human source. What kind? Details about the future; and these have always proved to be completely accurate.

The major reason why many from non-Christian lands refuse to accept the Bible as the Word of God is that historically, Christendom has claimed to believe in the Bible and to be its guardian. But the religious organizations of Christendom have been associated with some of the most appalling horrors of history, from the Crusades and pogroms of the Middle Ages to the Holocaust of our own time. Is the conduct of Christendom a good reason to reject the Bible? The truth is, Christendom has proved to be a false friend of the Bible.

The way genuine Christians can be recognized was explained by Jesus himself: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) Further, Jesus said: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:16) On both counts, Christendom betrays itself as clearly not representing Bible Christianity.

We are living in a world with too many problems and far too few answers. Many millions regularly go hungry. Increasing numbers are addicted to drugs. More and more families are breaking up. Incest and family violence are constantly in the news. The air we breathe and the water we drink are slowly being poisoned. Meanwhile, more and more of us are victimized by crime. Do you think problems like these will ever be solved?

The Bible offers guidance in matters of morality, and it describes effective solutions to the problems of crime, hunger, and pollution. The trouble is, most people no longer view the Bible as an authority in such matters.

Today, it is fashionable to be skeptical about everything: customs, ideas, morals, even the existence of God. Especially, people doubt the value of the Bible. Most seem to consider it out of date and irrelevant.

If the Bible is merely man's word, then logically there is no clear answer to mankind's problems. Humans will just have to muddle through as best they can, hoping somehow to avoid poisoning themselves out of existence or blowing themselves up in a nuclear war. But if the Bible is the Word of God, it is the very thing we need to get us through this difficult time.

With respect,
Cath

Cath
03-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I saw your post & I hope you don't mind my putting in my thoughts here. I really appreciated what you said about you liking to discuss such matters. Perhaps somthing I say may help you view the Bible as a source you can trust.

None of us like our words twisted. We can write something accurate, but have someone paraphrase what we said & change the meaning. That has happened with the Bible. It is "INTERPETATIONS" that are at fault, not what was written.

The Bible WAS inspired by God. What does that mean? That God directed the writing, much as a businessman uses a secretary to write letters for him. The idea of receiving messages from someone out in space should not surprise us. Even humans have sent messages and pictures from the moon. How did they do it? By using laws that originated long ago with God himself. It contains information that could not possibly have come from a human source. What kind? Details about the future; and these have always proved to be completely accurate.

The major reason why many from non-Christian lands refuse to accept the Bible as the Word of God is that historically, Christendom has claimed to believe in the Bible and to be its guardian. But the religious organizations of Christendom have been associated with some of the most appalling horrors of history, from the Crusades and pogroms of the Middle Ages to the Holocaust of our own time. Is the conduct of Christendom a good reason to reject the Bible? The truth is, Christendom has proved to be a false friend of the Bible.

The way genuine Christians can be recognized was explained by Jesus himself: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) Further, Jesus said: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:16) On both counts, Christendom betrays itself as clearly not representing Bible Christianity.

We are living in a world with too many problems and far too few answers. Many millions regularly go hungry. Increasing numbers are addicted to drugs. More and more families are breaking up. Incest and family violence are constantly in the news. The air we breathe and the water we drink are slowly being poisoned. Meanwhile, more and more of us are victimized by crime. Do you think problems like these will ever be solved?

The Bible offers guidance in matters of morality, and it describes effective solutions to the problems of crime, hunger, and pollution. The trouble is, most people no longer view the Bible as an authority in such matters.

Today, it is fashionable to be skeptical about everything: customs, ideas, morals, even the existence of God. Especially, people doubt the value of the Bible. Most seem to consider it out of date and irrelevant.

If the Bible is merely man's word, then logically there is no clear answer to mankind's problems. Humans will just have to muddle through as best they can, hoping somehow to avoid poisoning themselves out of existence or blowing themselves up in a nuclear war. But if the Bible is the Word of God, it is the very thing we need to get us through this difficult time.

With respect,
Cath

Cath
03-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Hi, I'm new here. I saw your post & I hope you don't mind my putting in my thoughts here. I really appreciated what you said about you liking to discuss such matters. Perhaps somthing I say may help you view the Bible as a source you can trust.

None of us like our words twisted. We can write something accurate, but have someone paraphrase what we said & change the meaning. That has happened with the Bible. It is "INTERPETATIONS" that are at fault, not what was written.

The Bible WAS inspired by God. What does that mean? That God directed the writing, much as a businessman uses a secretary to write letters for him. The idea of receiving messages from someone out in space should not surprise us. Even humans have sent messages and pictures from the moon. How did they do it? By using laws that originated long ago with God himself. It contains information that could not possibly have come from a human source. What kind? Details about the future; and these have always proved to be completely accurate.

The major reason why many from non-Christian lands refuse to accept the Bible as the Word of God is that historically, Christendom has claimed to believe in the Bible and to be its guardian. But the religious organizations of Christendom have been associated with some of the most appalling horrors of history, from the Crusades and pogroms of the Middle Ages to the Holocaust of our own time. Is the conduct of Christendom a good reason to reject the Bible? The truth is, Christendom has proved to be a false friend of the Bible.

The way genuine Christians can be recognized was explained by Jesus himself: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) Further, Jesus said: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:16) On both counts, Christendom betrays itself as clearly not representing Bible Christianity.

We are living in a world with too many problems and far too few answers. Many millions regularly go hungry. Increasing numbers are addicted to drugs. More and more families are breaking up. Incest and family violence are constantly in the news. The air we breathe and the water we drink are slowly being poisoned. Meanwhile, more and more of us are victimized by crime. Do you think problems like these will ever be solved?

The Bible offers guidance in matters of morality, and it describes effective solutions to the problems of crime, hunger, and pollution. The trouble is, most people no longer view the Bible as an authority in such matters.

Today, it is fashionable to be skeptical about everything: customs, ideas, morals, even the existence of God. Especially, people doubt the value of the Bible. Most seem to consider it out of date and irrelevant.

If the Bible is merely man's word, then logically there is no clear answer to mankind's problems. Humans will just have to muddle through as best they can, hoping somehow to avoid poisoning themselves out of existence or blowing themselves up in a nuclear war. But if the Bible is the Word of God, it is the very thing we need to get us through this difficult time.

With respect,
Cath

kayleesgrandma
03-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Welcome Cat, and that was a thoughtful and well-said reply.

kayleesgrandma
03-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Welcome Cat, and that was a thoughtful and well-said reply.

kayleesgrandma
03-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Welcome Cat, and that was a thoughtful and well-said reply.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 03:06 PM
i have always believed that God exists. i admit to letting doubt creep up on me at different times but all i needed to do was look back at personal experience through my relationship with Him to easily dismiss those doubts. as was previously stated, through out the bible we are to lean on Him, not on man, the prove of that is in one's own experience. once when i was asked about what religion i was (to put on son's medical record) i simply said Jesus. seems to me that says it all.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 03:06 PM
i have always believed that God exists. i admit to letting doubt creep up on me at different times but all i needed to do was look back at personal experience through my relationship with Him to easily dismiss those doubts. as was previously stated, through out the bible we are to lean on Him, not on man, the prove of that is in one's own experience. once when i was asked about what religion i was (to put on son's medical record) i simply said Jesus. seems to me that says it all.

love4josh
04-14-2007, 03:06 PM
i have always believed that God exists. i admit to letting doubt creep up on me at different times but all i needed to do was look back at personal experience through my relationship with Him to easily dismiss those doubts. as was previously stated, through out the bible we are to lean on Him, not on man, the prove of that is in one's own experience. once when i was asked about what religion i was (to put on son's medical record) i simply said Jesus. seems to me that says it all.