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Ratatosk
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Any suggestions on dealing with a 6 1/2 year old who doesn't listen, doesn't answer and we feel like we're going crazy constantly having to repeat ourselves. What is a better way of dealing with the whole cycle of not listening/paying attention and pretty much having a big blow up....

Last night when we got home from work/school we asked him to take his medicine, feed the dog, start his vest -- all part of his normal routine and it became a major production...

Ratatosk
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Any suggestions on dealing with a 6 1/2 year old who doesn't listen, doesn't answer and we feel like we're going crazy constantly having to repeat ourselves. What is a better way of dealing with the whole cycle of not listening/paying attention and pretty much having a big blow up....

Last night when we got home from work/school we asked him to take his medicine, feed the dog, start his vest -- all part of his normal routine and it became a major production...

Ratatosk
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Any suggestions on dealing with a 6 1/2 year old who doesn't listen, doesn't answer and we feel like we're going crazy constantly having to repeat ourselves. What is a better way of dealing with the whole cycle of not listening/paying attention and pretty much having a big blow up....

Last night when we got home from work/school we asked him to take his medicine, feed the dog, start his vest -- all part of his normal routine and it became a major production...

Ratatosk
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Any suggestions on dealing with a 6 1/2 year old who doesn't listen, doesn't answer and we feel like we're going crazy constantly having to repeat ourselves. What is a better way of dealing with the whole cycle of not listening/paying attention and pretty much having a big blow up....

Last night when we got home from work/school we asked him to take his medicine, feed the dog, start his vest -- all part of his normal routine and it became a major production...

Ratatosk
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Any suggestions on dealing with a 6 1/2 year old who doesn't listen, doesn't answer and we feel like we're going crazy constantly having to repeat ourselves. What is a better way of dealing with the whole cycle of not listening/paying attention and pretty much having a big blow up....
<br />
<br />Last night when we got home from work/school we asked him to take his medicine, feed the dog, start his vest -- all part of his normal routine and it became a major production...

hmw
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Gotta love Selective Deafness, since they certainly hear what they want to hear. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> It kicks in in a big way at this age for all kids!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0">

We've had to work at coming up with better ways of gaining compliance at all kinds of stuff too (getting homework and chores done, cooperating with routines (not just health stuff), etc... eventually it came down to making clear that they knew what our expectations were, were completely capable of carrying them out, we weren't going to endlessly repeat ourselves and consequences were going to follow if they didn't cooperate (vs. us driving ourselves insane and letting them see it stressed us out/turning it into an emotional situation in general.) But it's always a work in progress here too and we've had to alter our approaches here several times based on developmental stages (and what works to motivate them!) I am looking forward to seeing what our resident experts have to say on this too. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

hmw
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Gotta love Selective Deafness, since they certainly hear what they want to hear. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> It kicks in in a big way at this age for all kids!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0">

We've had to work at coming up with better ways of gaining compliance at all kinds of stuff too (getting homework and chores done, cooperating with routines (not just health stuff), etc... eventually it came down to making clear that they knew what our expectations were, were completely capable of carrying them out, we weren't going to endlessly repeat ourselves and consequences were going to follow if they didn't cooperate (vs. us driving ourselves insane and letting them see it stressed us out/turning it into an emotional situation in general.) But it's always a work in progress here too and we've had to alter our approaches here several times based on developmental stages (and what works to motivate them!) I am looking forward to seeing what our resident experts have to say on this too. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

hmw
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Gotta love Selective Deafness, since they certainly hear what they want to hear. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> It kicks in in a big way at this age for all kids!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0">

We've had to work at coming up with better ways of gaining compliance at all kinds of stuff too (getting homework and chores done, cooperating with routines (not just health stuff), etc... eventually it came down to making clear that they knew what our expectations were, were completely capable of carrying them out, we weren't going to endlessly repeat ourselves and consequences were going to follow if they didn't cooperate (vs. us driving ourselves insane and letting them see it stressed us out/turning it into an emotional situation in general.) But it's always a work in progress here too and we've had to alter our approaches here several times based on developmental stages (and what works to motivate them!) I am looking forward to seeing what our resident experts have to say on this too. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

hmw
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Gotta love Selective Deafness, since they certainly hear what they want to hear. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> It kicks in in a big way at this age for all kids!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0">

We've had to work at coming up with better ways of gaining compliance at all kinds of stuff too (getting homework and chores done, cooperating with routines (not just health stuff), etc... eventually it came down to making clear that they knew what our expectations were, were completely capable of carrying them out, we weren't going to endlessly repeat ourselves and consequences were going to follow if they didn't cooperate (vs. us driving ourselves insane and letting them see it stressed us out/turning it into an emotional situation in general.) But it's always a work in progress here too and we've had to alter our approaches here several times based on developmental stages (and what works to motivate them!) I am looking forward to seeing what our resident experts have to say on this too. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

hmw
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
Gotta love Selective Deafness, since they certainly hear what they want to hear. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> It kicks in in a big way at this age for all kids!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0">
<br />
<br />We've had to work at coming up with better ways of gaining compliance at all kinds of stuff too (getting homework and chores done, cooperating with routines (not just health stuff), etc... eventually it came down to making clear that they knew what our expectations were, were completely capable of carrying them out, we weren't going to endlessly repeat ourselves and consequences were going to follow if they didn't cooperate (vs. us driving ourselves insane and letting them see it stressed us out/turning it into an emotional situation in general.) But it's always a work in progress here too and we've had to alter our approaches here several times based on developmental stages (and what works to motivate them!) I am looking forward to seeing what our resident experts have to say on this too. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Melissa75
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I want to know too. How do I motivate my very different kids? One is mellow and fairly eager to please and responsive. Another "marches to his own drummer"--thankfully a saint at school, but we butt heads endlessly at home. The example, respect, self-image video is giving me a lot to work on. I am trying so hard not to lose my temper...

Melissa75
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I want to know too. How do I motivate my very different kids? One is mellow and fairly eager to please and responsive. Another "marches to his own drummer"--thankfully a saint at school, but we butt heads endlessly at home. The example, respect, self-image video is giving me a lot to work on. I am trying so hard not to lose my temper...

Melissa75
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I want to know too. How do I motivate my very different kids? One is mellow and fairly eager to please and responsive. Another "marches to his own drummer"--thankfully a saint at school, but we butt heads endlessly at home. The example, respect, self-image video is giving me a lot to work on. I am trying so hard not to lose my temper...

Melissa75
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I want to know too. How do I motivate my very different kids? One is mellow and fairly eager to please and responsive. Another "marches to his own drummer"--thankfully a saint at school, but we butt heads endlessly at home. The example, respect, self-image video is giving me a lot to work on. I am trying so hard not to lose my temper...

Melissa75
01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I want to know too. How do I motivate my very different kids? One is mellow and fairly eager to please and responsive. Another "marches to his own drummer"--thankfully a saint at school, but we butt heads endlessly at home. The example, respect, self-image video is giving me a lot to work on. I am trying so hard not to lose my temper...

LisaGreene
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Isn't this just the most annoying thing? Very common, developmentally expected and pretty easy to turn around with some simple tools and parenting "courage." Here are a few Love and Logic-isms that will help:

1. Kids will always come to need the same number of warnings or reminders that we give. If we can train them to listen by the 3rd (or 4th or 5th time), then we can train them to listen by the first time.

2. It's not what you say, it's what you DO. Set the limit/ expectation once and follow through with empathy before consequences.

3. Love and Logic teaches a four-step process for turning children's mistakes and misbehavior into opportunities for learning and building self-esteem.

<b>The Four Steps to Responsibility</b>

<b>Step One:</b> Give the child a task he/she can handle. This builds responsibility, prepares children for the real world, and develops self-concept.

<b>Step Two:</b> Hope that the child "blows" it so that the child has a learning *Experience* when the price tag is small.

<b>Step Three:</b> Let equal parts of empathy and consequence do the teaching. Empathy allows learning to occur rather than giving the child an opportunity to focus upon the anger of the adult. Empathy builds relationships. Empathy stimulates thinking. Consequences allow children to "own" the problem. Consequences are real world.

<b>Step Four:</b> Give the same task again. This sends the implied message: "You're smart and I know you can learn from your mistakes. Communicates: TRUST. Says: "You are capable."

Here's a simple example of how this might work:
"Joey. Please take the garbage out by 5:00 today. Thank you." (Notice I didn't say "take it out this very minute.") No response from Joey. That's fine, let it go (for now).

At 5:01, the garbage isn't out. Mom takes out the garbage without saying a word.

At 6:30, Joey says, "Hey Mom! Can I go over to Billy's house?"
Mom: "Ohhh. This is so sad. But do you remember when I asked you to take the garbage out by 5? Well, it didn't get done and I had to do it. So now, I just don't have any energy left to take you over to Billy's house. Bummer. Maybe another time."

Next day, Mom: "Hey Joey! Can you please take the garbage out for me by 5:00? Thanks!"

The same approach can be used for breathing treatments.

If you want more clarification and great examples of how to apply this process in real life situations, L&L has a CD called: <i>The Four Steps to Responsibility: Techniques to Lead Children to Responsible Decision-Making</i>

See www.loveandlogic.com.

LisaGreene
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Isn't this just the most annoying thing? Very common, developmentally expected and pretty easy to turn around with some simple tools and parenting "courage." Here are a few Love and Logic-isms that will help:

1. Kids will always come to need the same number of warnings or reminders that we give. If we can train them to listen by the 3rd (or 4th or 5th time), then we can train them to listen by the first time.

2. It's not what you say, it's what you DO. Set the limit/ expectation once and follow through with empathy before consequences.

3. Love and Logic teaches a four-step process for turning children's mistakes and misbehavior into opportunities for learning and building self-esteem.

<b>The Four Steps to Responsibility</b>

<b>Step One:</b> Give the child a task he/she can handle. This builds responsibility, prepares children for the real world, and develops self-concept.

<b>Step Two:</b> Hope that the child "blows" it so that the child has a learning *Experience* when the price tag is small.

<b>Step Three:</b> Let equal parts of empathy and consequence do the teaching. Empathy allows learning to occur rather than giving the child an opportunity to focus upon the anger of the adult. Empathy builds relationships. Empathy stimulates thinking. Consequences allow children to "own" the problem. Consequences are real world.

<b>Step Four:</b> Give the same task again. This sends the implied message: "You're smart and I know you can learn from your mistakes. Communicates: TRUST. Says: "You are capable."

Here's a simple example of how this might work:
"Joey. Please take the garbage out by 5:00 today. Thank you." (Notice I didn't say "take it out this very minute.") No response from Joey. That's fine, let it go (for now).

At 5:01, the garbage isn't out. Mom takes out the garbage without saying a word.

At 6:30, Joey says, "Hey Mom! Can I go over to Billy's house?"
Mom: "Ohhh. This is so sad. But do you remember when I asked you to take the garbage out by 5? Well, it didn't get done and I had to do it. So now, I just don't have any energy left to take you over to Billy's house. Bummer. Maybe another time."

Next day, Mom: "Hey Joey! Can you please take the garbage out for me by 5:00? Thanks!"

The same approach can be used for breathing treatments.

If you want more clarification and great examples of how to apply this process in real life situations, L&L has a CD called: <i>The Four Steps to Responsibility: Techniques to Lead Children to Responsible Decision-Making</i>

See www.loveandlogic.com.

LisaGreene
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Isn't this just the most annoying thing? Very common, developmentally expected and pretty easy to turn around with some simple tools and parenting "courage." Here are a few Love and Logic-isms that will help:

1. Kids will always come to need the same number of warnings or reminders that we give. If we can train them to listen by the 3rd (or 4th or 5th time), then we can train them to listen by the first time.

2. It's not what you say, it's what you DO. Set the limit/ expectation once and follow through with empathy before consequences.

3. Love and Logic teaches a four-step process for turning children's mistakes and misbehavior into opportunities for learning and building self-esteem.

<b>The Four Steps to Responsibility</b>

<b>Step One:</b> Give the child a task he/she can handle. This builds responsibility, prepares children for the real world, and develops self-concept.

<b>Step Two:</b> Hope that the child "blows" it so that the child has a learning *Experience* when the price tag is small.

<b>Step Three:</b> Let equal parts of empathy and consequence do the teaching. Empathy allows learning to occur rather than giving the child an opportunity to focus upon the anger of the adult. Empathy builds relationships. Empathy stimulates thinking. Consequences allow children to "own" the problem. Consequences are real world.

<b>Step Four:</b> Give the same task again. This sends the implied message: "You're smart and I know you can learn from your mistakes. Communicates: TRUST. Says: "You are capable."

Here's a simple example of how this might work:
"Joey. Please take the garbage out by 5:00 today. Thank you." (Notice I didn't say "take it out this very minute.") No response from Joey. That's fine, let it go (for now).

At 5:01, the garbage isn't out. Mom takes out the garbage without saying a word.

At 6:30, Joey says, "Hey Mom! Can I go over to Billy's house?"
Mom: "Ohhh. This is so sad. But do you remember when I asked you to take the garbage out by 5? Well, it didn't get done and I had to do it. So now, I just don't have any energy left to take you over to Billy's house. Bummer. Maybe another time."

Next day, Mom: "Hey Joey! Can you please take the garbage out for me by 5:00? Thanks!"

The same approach can be used for breathing treatments.

If you want more clarification and great examples of how to apply this process in real life situations, L&L has a CD called: <i>The Four Steps to Responsibility: Techniques to Lead Children to Responsible Decision-Making</i>

See www.loveandlogic.com.

LisaGreene
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Isn't this just the most annoying thing? Very common, developmentally expected and pretty easy to turn around with some simple tools and parenting "courage." Here are a few Love and Logic-isms that will help:

1. Kids will always come to need the same number of warnings or reminders that we give. If we can train them to listen by the 3rd (or 4th or 5th time), then we can train them to listen by the first time.

2. It's not what you say, it's what you DO. Set the limit/ expectation once and follow through with empathy before consequences.

3. Love and Logic teaches a four-step process for turning children's mistakes and misbehavior into opportunities for learning and building self-esteem.

<b>The Four Steps to Responsibility</b>

<b>Step One:</b> Give the child a task he/she can handle. This builds responsibility, prepares children for the real world, and develops self-concept.

<b>Step Two:</b> Hope that the child "blows" it so that the child has a learning *Experience* when the price tag is small.

<b>Step Three:</b> Let equal parts of empathy and consequence do the teaching. Empathy allows learning to occur rather than giving the child an opportunity to focus upon the anger of the adult. Empathy builds relationships. Empathy stimulates thinking. Consequences allow children to "own" the problem. Consequences are real world.

<b>Step Four:</b> Give the same task again. This sends the implied message: "You're smart and I know you can learn from your mistakes. Communicates: TRUST. Says: "You are capable."

Here's a simple example of how this might work:
"Joey. Please take the garbage out by 5:00 today. Thank you." (Notice I didn't say "take it out this very minute.") No response from Joey. That's fine, let it go (for now).

At 5:01, the garbage isn't out. Mom takes out the garbage without saying a word.

At 6:30, Joey says, "Hey Mom! Can I go over to Billy's house?"
Mom: "Ohhh. This is so sad. But do you remember when I asked you to take the garbage out by 5? Well, it didn't get done and I had to do it. So now, I just don't have any energy left to take you over to Billy's house. Bummer. Maybe another time."

Next day, Mom: "Hey Joey! Can you please take the garbage out for me by 5:00? Thanks!"

The same approach can be used for breathing treatments.

If you want more clarification and great examples of how to apply this process in real life situations, L&L has a CD called: <i>The Four Steps to Responsibility: Techniques to Lead Children to Responsible Decision-Making</i>

See www.loveandlogic.com.

LisaGreene
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Isn't this just the most annoying thing? Very common, developmentally expected and pretty easy to turn around with some simple tools and parenting "courage." Here are a few Love and Logic-isms that will help:
<br />
<br />1. Kids will always come to need the same number of warnings or reminders that we give. If we can train them to listen by the 3rd (or 4th or 5th time), then we can train them to listen by the first time.
<br />
<br />2. It's not what you say, it's what you DO. Set the limit/ expectation once and follow through with empathy before consequences.
<br />
<br />3. Love and Logic teaches a four-step process for turning children's mistakes and misbehavior into opportunities for learning and building self-esteem.
<br />
<br /><b>The Four Steps to Responsibility</b>
<br />
<br /><b>Step One:</b> Give the child a task he/she can handle. This builds responsibility, prepares children for the real world, and develops self-concept.
<br />
<br /><b>Step Two:</b> Hope that the child "blows" it so that the child has a learning *Experience* when the price tag is small.
<br />
<br /><b>Step Three:</b> Let equal parts of empathy and consequence do the teaching. Empathy allows learning to occur rather than giving the child an opportunity to focus upon the anger of the adult. Empathy builds relationships. Empathy stimulates thinking. Consequences allow children to "own" the problem. Consequences are real world.
<br />
<br /><b>Step Four:</b> Give the same task again. This sends the implied message: "You're smart and I know you can learn from your mistakes. Communicates: TRUST. Says: "You are capable."
<br />
<br />Here's a simple example of how this might work:
<br />"Joey. Please take the garbage out by 5:00 today. Thank you." (Notice I didn't say "take it out this very minute.") No response from Joey. That's fine, let it go (for now).
<br />
<br />At 5:01, the garbage isn't out. Mom takes out the garbage without saying a word.
<br />
<br />At 6:30, Joey says, "Hey Mom! Can I go over to Billy's house?"
<br />Mom: "Ohhh. This is so sad. But do you remember when I asked you to take the garbage out by 5? Well, it didn't get done and I had to do it. So now, I just don't have any energy left to take you over to Billy's house. Bummer. Maybe another time."
<br />
<br />Next day, Mom: "Hey Joey! Can you please take the garbage out for me by 5:00? Thanks!"
<br />
<br />The same approach can be used for breathing treatments.
<br />
<br />If you want more clarification and great examples of how to apply this process in real life situations, L&L has a CD called: <i>The Four Steps to Responsibility: Techniques to Lead Children to Responsible Decision-Making</i>
<br />
<br />See www.loveandlogic.com.

Ratatosk
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
We used a similar tactic on Wednesday night. Didn't get vest/nebs done in time, didn't get to go to grandma and grandpa's house for supper and to play. And I felt like sulking a bit because we didn't get to go to a movie.

Last night I reminded him on the car ride home that he needed to take his medicine and start his vest so he'd have time to play. Did remind him once again when he was running thru the house like a banshee, chasing the dog with a nerf sword. But we got things done in enough time for him to go to his grandparents house and for us to see a movie.

Ratatosk
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
We used a similar tactic on Wednesday night. Didn't get vest/nebs done in time, didn't get to go to grandma and grandpa's house for supper and to play. And I felt like sulking a bit because we didn't get to go to a movie.

Last night I reminded him on the car ride home that he needed to take his medicine and start his vest so he'd have time to play. Did remind him once again when he was running thru the house like a banshee, chasing the dog with a nerf sword. But we got things done in enough time for him to go to his grandparents house and for us to see a movie.

Ratatosk
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
We used a similar tactic on Wednesday night. Didn't get vest/nebs done in time, didn't get to go to grandma and grandpa's house for supper and to play. And I felt like sulking a bit because we didn't get to go to a movie.

Last night I reminded him on the car ride home that he needed to take his medicine and start his vest so he'd have time to play. Did remind him once again when he was running thru the house like a banshee, chasing the dog with a nerf sword. But we got things done in enough time for him to go to his grandparents house and for us to see a movie.

Ratatosk
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
We used a similar tactic on Wednesday night. Didn't get vest/nebs done in time, didn't get to go to grandma and grandpa's house for supper and to play. And I felt like sulking a bit because we didn't get to go to a movie.

Last night I reminded him on the car ride home that he needed to take his medicine and start his vest so he'd have time to play. Did remind him once again when he was running thru the house like a banshee, chasing the dog with a nerf sword. But we got things done in enough time for him to go to his grandparents house and for us to see a movie.

Ratatosk
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
We used a similar tactic on Wednesday night. Didn't get vest/nebs done in time, didn't get to go to grandma and grandpa's house for supper and to play. And I felt like sulking a bit because we didn't get to go to a movie.
<br />
<br />Last night I reminded him on the car ride home that he needed to take his medicine and start his vest so he'd have time to play. Did remind him once again when he was running thru the house like a banshee, chasing the dog with a nerf sword. But we got things done in enough time for him to go to his grandparents house and for us to see a movie.

hmw
01-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it is hard when follow-through for the kids ends up punishing US (whether it's due to the kids' reaction in general or due to something we can't do, etc.) But I try to remind myself that during the process it will be for the short term and the long term benefits are worth it. I try to choose consequences for the kids that don't affect ME as much as they will affect THEM but it can be hard! I'm glad Max got it on night #2.

It can be hard to get out of patterns of arguing with them, nagging, getting emotional etc (the kids know exactly how to push our buttons!) It doesn't happen overnight and requires tweaking as their developmental levels keep changing. One of our kids has a severe emotional/behavioral disorder (along with anxiety and adhd) and has been in counseling... and one thing I can definitely say about that is a lot of what has been addressed has been for us as parents, it's certainly not all for him. He's come a long long way in the last couple years but it hasn't been easy and I don't think he ever WILL be easy.

I'd never heard of the Love & Logic methods until pretty recently but we were taught very similar techniques through his counseling and I can tell you they DO work. I can't say enough about teaching them the consequence thing while the stakes are SMALL because when they are 6 even vs. when they are 11 is a world of difference (nevermind teenage yrs!) and the lesson is far better learned at 6. I also can't agree more with giving them responsibilities and allowing them to be capable... they are far more capable than we often give them credit for (essentially, they are as capable as we allow them to be) and allowing this does so much for them. We have seen this too.

We all learned a couple yrs ago that our son was capable of making choices that quite literally could make the difference between his life or his death. Allowing children to learn while consequences are much much smaller than this is absolutely VITAL, and no- the process is not always fun or comfortable for us parents to deal with (or the child)... but it's real life and must be done, for their for their own good and future benefit.

It's not fair they have to face the reality of their health issues, but it is what it is... it would be even less fair to be thrust into the world less than capable of coping with it. And this ability starts to develop very young.

hmw
01-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it is hard when follow-through for the kids ends up punishing US (whether it's due to the kids' reaction in general or due to something we can't do, etc.) But I try to remind myself that during the process it will be for the short term and the long term benefits are worth it. I try to choose consequences for the kids that don't affect ME as much as they will affect THEM but it can be hard! I'm glad Max got it on night #2.

It can be hard to get out of patterns of arguing with them, nagging, getting emotional etc (the kids know exactly how to push our buttons!) It doesn't happen overnight and requires tweaking as their developmental levels keep changing. One of our kids has a severe emotional/behavioral disorder (along with anxiety and adhd) and has been in counseling... and one thing I can definitely say about that is a lot of what has been addressed has been for us as parents, it's certainly not all for him. He's come a long long way in the last couple years but it hasn't been easy and I don't think he ever WILL be easy.

I'd never heard of the Love & Logic methods until pretty recently but we were taught very similar techniques through his counseling and I can tell you they DO work. I can't say enough about teaching them the consequence thing while the stakes are SMALL because when they are 6 even vs. when they are 11 is a world of difference (nevermind teenage yrs!) and the lesson is far better learned at 6. I also can't agree more with giving them responsibilities and allowing them to be capable... they are far more capable than we often give them credit for (essentially, they are as capable as we allow them to be) and allowing this does so much for them. We have seen this too.

We all learned a couple yrs ago that our son was capable of making choices that quite literally could make the difference between his life or his death. Allowing children to learn while consequences are much much smaller than this is absolutely VITAL, and no- the process is not always fun or comfortable for us parents to deal with (or the child)... but it's real life and must be done, for their for their own good and future benefit.

It's not fair they have to face the reality of their health issues, but it is what it is... it would be even less fair to be thrust into the world less than capable of coping with it. And this ability starts to develop very young.

hmw
01-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it is hard when follow-through for the kids ends up punishing US (whether it's due to the kids' reaction in general or due to something we can't do, etc.) But I try to remind myself that during the process it will be for the short term and the long term benefits are worth it. I try to choose consequences for the kids that don't affect ME as much as they will affect THEM but it can be hard! I'm glad Max got it on night #2.

It can be hard to get out of patterns of arguing with them, nagging, getting emotional etc (the kids know exactly how to push our buttons!) It doesn't happen overnight and requires tweaking as their developmental levels keep changing. One of our kids has a severe emotional/behavioral disorder (along with anxiety and adhd) and has been in counseling... and one thing I can definitely say about that is a lot of what has been addressed has been for us as parents, it's certainly not all for him. He's come a long long way in the last couple years but it hasn't been easy and I don't think he ever WILL be easy.

I'd never heard of the Love & Logic methods until pretty recently but we were taught very similar techniques through his counseling and I can tell you they DO work. I can't say enough about teaching them the consequence thing while the stakes are SMALL because when they are 6 even vs. when they are 11 is a world of difference (nevermind teenage yrs!) and the lesson is far better learned at 6. I also can't agree more with giving them responsibilities and allowing them to be capable... they are far more capable than we often give them credit for (essentially, they are as capable as we allow them to be) and allowing this does so much for them. We have seen this too.

We all learned a couple yrs ago that our son was capable of making choices that quite literally could make the difference between his life or his death. Allowing children to learn while consequences are much much smaller than this is absolutely VITAL, and no- the process is not always fun or comfortable for us parents to deal with (or the child)... but it's real life and must be done, for their for their own good and future benefit.

It's not fair they have to face the reality of their health issues, but it is what it is... it would be even less fair to be thrust into the world less than capable of coping with it. And this ability starts to develop very young.

hmw
01-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it is hard when follow-through for the kids ends up punishing US (whether it's due to the kids' reaction in general or due to something we can't do, etc.) But I try to remind myself that during the process it will be for the short term and the long term benefits are worth it. I try to choose consequences for the kids that don't affect ME as much as they will affect THEM but it can be hard! I'm glad Max got it on night #2.

It can be hard to get out of patterns of arguing with them, nagging, getting emotional etc (the kids know exactly how to push our buttons!) It doesn't happen overnight and requires tweaking as their developmental levels keep changing. One of our kids has a severe emotional/behavioral disorder (along with anxiety and adhd) and has been in counseling... and one thing I can definitely say about that is a lot of what has been addressed has been for us as parents, it's certainly not all for him. He's come a long long way in the last couple years but it hasn't been easy and I don't think he ever WILL be easy.

I'd never heard of the Love & Logic methods until pretty recently but we were taught very similar techniques through his counseling and I can tell you they DO work. I can't say enough about teaching them the consequence thing while the stakes are SMALL because when they are 6 even vs. when they are 11 is a world of difference (nevermind teenage yrs!) and the lesson is far better learned at 6. I also can't agree more with giving them responsibilities and allowing them to be capable... they are far more capable than we often give them credit for (essentially, they are as capable as we allow them to be) and allowing this does so much for them. We have seen this too.

We all learned a couple yrs ago that our son was capable of making choices that quite literally could make the difference between his life or his death. Allowing children to learn while consequences are much much smaller than this is absolutely VITAL, and no- the process is not always fun or comfortable for us parents to deal with (or the child)... but it's real life and must be done, for their for their own good and future benefit.

It's not fair they have to face the reality of their health issues, but it is what it is... it would be even less fair to be thrust into the world less than capable of coping with it. And this ability starts to develop very young.

hmw
01-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it is hard when follow-through for the kids ends up punishing US (whether it's due to the kids' reaction in general or due to something we can't do, etc.) But I try to remind myself that during the process it will be for the short term and the long term benefits are worth it. I try to choose consequences for the kids that don't affect ME as much as they will affect THEM but it can be hard! I'm glad Max got it on night #2.
<br />
<br />It can be hard to get out of patterns of arguing with them, nagging, getting emotional etc (the kids know exactly how to push our buttons!) It doesn't happen overnight and requires tweaking as their developmental levels keep changing. One of our kids has a severe emotional/behavioral disorder (along with anxiety and adhd) and has been in counseling... and one thing I can definitely say about that is a lot of what has been addressed has been for us as parents, it's certainly not all for him. He's come a long long way in the last couple years but it hasn't been easy and I don't think he ever WILL be easy.
<br />
<br />I'd never heard of the Love & Logic methods until pretty recently but we were taught very similar techniques through his counseling and I can tell you they DO work. I can't say enough about teaching them the consequence thing while the stakes are SMALL because when they are 6 even vs. when they are 11 is a world of difference (nevermind teenage yrs!) and the lesson is far better learned at 6. I also can't agree more with giving them responsibilities and allowing them to be capable... they are far more capable than we often give them credit for (essentially, they are as capable as we allow them to be) and allowing this does so much for them. We have seen this too.
<br />
<br />We all learned a couple yrs ago that our son was capable of making choices that quite literally could make the difference between his life or his death. Allowing children to learn while consequences are much much smaller than this is absolutely VITAL, and no- the process is not always fun or comfortable for us parents to deal with (or the child)... but it's real life and must be done, for their for their own good and future benefit.
<br />
<br />It's not fair they have to face the reality of their health issues, but it is what it is... it would be even less fair to be thrust into the world less than capable of coping with it. And this ability starts to develop very young.

gracebazzle
01-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know if this will help since I'm not a parent but a patient, but I just know what my parents did for me.

It might sound harsh, but my parents were told by docs from the time my brother and I were diagnosed that it was OUR disease, NOT my parents. And it's so true. Yes, your parents are there to guide you, but it is YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. We had to understand at an early age that if we wanted to be healthy and able to go to school and play with our friends like we wanted, we had to take our pills and do our vest/cpt. I guess this is why CF patients mature at such a young age because we learn the importance of being responsible so early on.

I know 6 years old might be a little young, but I honestly don't remember a time where I wasn't at least trying to do things myself. Of course a 6 yr old will need help with some things like cleaning nebs and making sure they are taking the right number of pills...but teaching the responsibility and having them do stuff on their own gradually is the way to go.

I am so thankful for the way my parents raised and taught us how to deal with our disease. They are always there for me to stay with me when I go in the hospital or have an exacerbation, or offer advice on days when I'm feeling frustrated with my CF, and overall just be there to listen. And although they might share my frustrations and worries when it comes to CF, it is MY responsibility to be compliant.

Oh and P.S. It only takes a few times of missing those enzymes and experiencing the stomach pains and hours in the bathroom before you DON'T miss them anymore!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

gracebazzle
01-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know if this will help since I'm not a parent but a patient, but I just know what my parents did for me.

It might sound harsh, but my parents were told by docs from the time my brother and I were diagnosed that it was OUR disease, NOT my parents. And it's so true. Yes, your parents are there to guide you, but it is YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. We had to understand at an early age that if we wanted to be healthy and able to go to school and play with our friends like we wanted, we had to take our pills and do our vest/cpt. I guess this is why CF patients mature at such a young age because we learn the importance of being responsible so early on.

I know 6 years old might be a little young, but I honestly don't remember a time where I wasn't at least trying to do things myself. Of course a 6 yr old will need help with some things like cleaning nebs and making sure they are taking the right number of pills...but teaching the responsibility and having them do stuff on their own gradually is the way to go.

I am so thankful for the way my parents raised and taught us how to deal with our disease. They are always there for me to stay with me when I go in the hospital or have an exacerbation, or offer advice on days when I'm feeling frustrated with my CF, and overall just be there to listen. And although they might share my frustrations and worries when it comes to CF, it is MY responsibility to be compliant.

Oh and P.S. It only takes a few times of missing those enzymes and experiencing the stomach pains and hours in the bathroom before you DON'T miss them anymore!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

gracebazzle
01-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know if this will help since I'm not a parent but a patient, but I just know what my parents did for me.

It might sound harsh, but my parents were told by docs from the time my brother and I were diagnosed that it was OUR disease, NOT my parents. And it's so true. Yes, your parents are there to guide you, but it is YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. We had to understand at an early age that if we wanted to be healthy and able to go to school and play with our friends like we wanted, we had to take our pills and do our vest/cpt. I guess this is why CF patients mature at such a young age because we learn the importance of being responsible so early on.

I know 6 years old might be a little young, but I honestly don't remember a time where I wasn't at least trying to do things myself. Of course a 6 yr old will need help with some things like cleaning nebs and making sure they are taking the right number of pills...but teaching the responsibility and having them do stuff on their own gradually is the way to go.

I am so thankful for the way my parents raised and taught us how to deal with our disease. They are always there for me to stay with me when I go in the hospital or have an exacerbation, or offer advice on days when I'm feeling frustrated with my CF, and overall just be there to listen. And although they might share my frustrations and worries when it comes to CF, it is MY responsibility to be compliant.

Oh and P.S. It only takes a few times of missing those enzymes and experiencing the stomach pains and hours in the bathroom before you DON'T miss them anymore!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

gracebazzle
01-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know if this will help since I'm not a parent but a patient, but I just know what my parents did for me.

It might sound harsh, but my parents were told by docs from the time my brother and I were diagnosed that it was OUR disease, NOT my parents. And it's so true. Yes, your parents are there to guide you, but it is YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. We had to understand at an early age that if we wanted to be healthy and able to go to school and play with our friends like we wanted, we had to take our pills and do our vest/cpt. I guess this is why CF patients mature at such a young age because we learn the importance of being responsible so early on.

I know 6 years old might be a little young, but I honestly don't remember a time where I wasn't at least trying to do things myself. Of course a 6 yr old will need help with some things like cleaning nebs and making sure they are taking the right number of pills...but teaching the responsibility and having them do stuff on their own gradually is the way to go.

I am so thankful for the way my parents raised and taught us how to deal with our disease. They are always there for me to stay with me when I go in the hospital or have an exacerbation, or offer advice on days when I'm feeling frustrated with my CF, and overall just be there to listen. And although they might share my frustrations and worries when it comes to CF, it is MY responsibility to be compliant.

Oh and P.S. It only takes a few times of missing those enzymes and experiencing the stomach pains and hours in the bathroom before you DON'T miss them anymore!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

gracebazzle
01-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know if this will help since I'm not a parent but a patient, but I just know what my parents did for me.
<br />
<br />It might sound harsh, but my parents were told by docs from the time my brother and I were diagnosed that it was OUR disease, NOT my parents. And it's so true. Yes, your parents are there to guide you, but it is YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. We had to understand at an early age that if we wanted to be healthy and able to go to school and play with our friends like we wanted, we had to take our pills and do our vest/cpt. I guess this is why CF patients mature at such a young age because we learn the importance of being responsible so early on.
<br />
<br />I know 6 years old might be a little young, but I honestly don't remember a time where I wasn't at least trying to do things myself. Of course a 6 yr old will need help with some things like cleaning nebs and making sure they are taking the right number of pills...but teaching the responsibility and having them do stuff on their own gradually is the way to go.
<br />
<br />I am so thankful for the way my parents raised and taught us how to deal with our disease. They are always there for me to stay with me when I go in the hospital or have an exacerbation, or offer advice on days when I'm feeling frustrated with my CF, and overall just be there to listen. And although they might share my frustrations and worries when it comes to CF, it is MY responsibility to be compliant.
<br />
<br />Oh and P.S. It only takes a few times of missing those enzymes and experiencing the stomach pains and hours in the bathroom before you DON'T miss them anymore!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

andrev77
01-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I know when I was younger, I drove my parents crazy. Whether it was by "forgetting" to take my pills, or by playing way too rough (i loved sports and tackle football with people 3X my size). I didn't have the vest until I was about 16, so that definitely didn't go over well. They tried to ground me, but that didn't work because "go to your room, you're not playing with your friends" was fine with me because thats where all my toys were. Kids these days are smarter because of all the technology around them. However, they will get bored easier since they don't know how to get along without all these gadgets that we didn't have when we were younger. Take them away as punishment and things wll start to sink in. Jusr remember though, they are smarter now, so when they are in school and not around anyone with CF, they will want to live the "normal" life of their friends. As a parent, you have to stay on it. They won't do it for themselves and especially not at that age.

Andre 31 w/CF DX @ birth

andrev77
01-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I know when I was younger, I drove my parents crazy. Whether it was by "forgetting" to take my pills, or by playing way too rough (i loved sports and tackle football with people 3X my size). I didn't have the vest until I was about 16, so that definitely didn't go over well. They tried to ground me, but that didn't work because "go to your room, you're not playing with your friends" was fine with me because thats where all my toys were. Kids these days are smarter because of all the technology around them. However, they will get bored easier since they don't know how to get along without all these gadgets that we didn't have when we were younger. Take them away as punishment and things wll start to sink in. Jusr remember though, they are smarter now, so when they are in school and not around anyone with CF, they will want to live the "normal" life of their friends. As a parent, you have to stay on it. They won't do it for themselves and especially not at that age.

Andre 31 w/CF DX @ birth

andrev77
01-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I know when I was younger, I drove my parents crazy. Whether it was by "forgetting" to take my pills, or by playing way too rough (i loved sports and tackle football with people 3X my size). I didn't have the vest until I was about 16, so that definitely didn't go over well. They tried to ground me, but that didn't work because "go to your room, you're not playing with your friends" was fine with me because thats where all my toys were. Kids these days are smarter because of all the technology around them. However, they will get bored easier since they don't know how to get along without all these gadgets that we didn't have when we were younger. Take them away as punishment and things wll start to sink in. Jusr remember though, they are smarter now, so when they are in school and not around anyone with CF, they will want to live the "normal" life of their friends. As a parent, you have to stay on it. They won't do it for themselves and especially not at that age.

Andre 31 w/CF DX @ birth

andrev77
01-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I know when I was younger, I drove my parents crazy. Whether it was by "forgetting" to take my pills, or by playing way too rough (i loved sports and tackle football with people 3X my size). I didn't have the vest until I was about 16, so that definitely didn't go over well. They tried to ground me, but that didn't work because "go to your room, you're not playing with your friends" was fine with me because thats where all my toys were. Kids these days are smarter because of all the technology around them. However, they will get bored easier since they don't know how to get along without all these gadgets that we didn't have when we were younger. Take them away as punishment and things wll start to sink in. Jusr remember though, they are smarter now, so when they are in school and not around anyone with CF, they will want to live the "normal" life of their friends. As a parent, you have to stay on it. They won't do it for themselves and especially not at that age.

Andre 31 w/CF DX @ birth

andrev77
01-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I know when I was younger, I drove my parents crazy. Whether it was by "forgetting" to take my pills, or by playing way too rough (i loved sports and tackle football with people 3X my size). I didn't have the vest until I was about 16, so that definitely didn't go over well. They tried to ground me, but that didn't work because "go to your room, you're not playing with your friends" was fine with me because thats where all my toys were. Kids these days are smarter because of all the technology around them. However, they will get bored easier since they don't know how to get along without all these gadgets that we didn't have when we were younger. Take them away as punishment and things wll start to sink in. Jusr remember though, they are smarter now, so when they are in school and not around anyone with CF, they will want to live the "normal" life of their friends. As a parent, you have to stay on it. They won't do it for themselves and especially not at that age.
<br />
<br />Andre 31 w/CF DX @ birth

FosterClineMD
01-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Gosh, Lisa did such an outstanding job of answering this, I don't see what I can add.

I do remember a very talkative and "noisy" mom who, when I saw her kid alone said, "Really Dr. Cline, if you lived with my mom, you'd probably stop listening too." Sometimes when kids don't listen, it's simply because our talk/say ratio as parents is way too high. If this shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

I really want to emphasize what Lisa said - - Happy children (and happy countries, too) do well because of how the administration <i>operates</i>, not what is said, requested, promised or lectured about.

Frankly all parents say, in words, "You need to listen to me" or some such. Unhappy parents will say it over and over again, and happy parents tend to say it once, and when the child doesn't listen, they look sad and say something along the line, "Gee, I don't think this is going to work out very well for you!"

And then consistent consequences follow.

I grant you that dishing out consequences <i>lovingly and with empathy</i> when necessary is an art. Here, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it! That art of consequencing has been dealt with in many books.

FosterClineMD
01-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Gosh, Lisa did such an outstanding job of answering this, I don't see what I can add.

I do remember a very talkative and "noisy" mom who, when I saw her kid alone said, "Really Dr. Cline, if you lived with my mom, you'd probably stop listening too." Sometimes when kids don't listen, it's simply because our talk/say ratio as parents is way too high. If this shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

I really want to emphasize what Lisa said - - Happy children (and happy countries, too) do well because of how the administration <i>operates</i>, not what is said, requested, promised or lectured about.

Frankly all parents say, in words, "You need to listen to me" or some such. Unhappy parents will say it over and over again, and happy parents tend to say it once, and when the child doesn't listen, they look sad and say something along the line, "Gee, I don't think this is going to work out very well for you!"

And then consistent consequences follow.

I grant you that dishing out consequences <i>lovingly and with empathy</i> when necessary is an art. Here, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it! That art of consequencing has been dealt with in many books.

FosterClineMD
01-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Gosh, Lisa did such an outstanding job of answering this, I don't see what I can add.

I do remember a very talkative and "noisy" mom who, when I saw her kid alone said, "Really Dr. Cline, if you lived with my mom, you'd probably stop listening too." Sometimes when kids don't listen, it's simply because our talk/say ratio as parents is way too high. If this shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

I really want to emphasize what Lisa said - - Happy children (and happy countries, too) do well because of how the administration <i>operates</i>, not what is said, requested, promised or lectured about.

Frankly all parents say, in words, "You need to listen to me" or some such. Unhappy parents will say it over and over again, and happy parents tend to say it once, and when the child doesn't listen, they look sad and say something along the line, "Gee, I don't think this is going to work out very well for you!"

And then consistent consequences follow.

I grant you that dishing out consequences <i>lovingly and with empathy</i> when necessary is an art. Here, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it! That art of consequencing has been dealt with in many books.

FosterClineMD
01-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Gosh, Lisa did such an outstanding job of answering this, I don't see what I can add.

I do remember a very talkative and "noisy" mom who, when I saw her kid alone said, "Really Dr. Cline, if you lived with my mom, you'd probably stop listening too." Sometimes when kids don't listen, it's simply because our talk/say ratio as parents is way too high. If this shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

I really want to emphasize what Lisa said - - Happy children (and happy countries, too) do well because of how the administration <i>operates</i>, not what is said, requested, promised or lectured about.

Frankly all parents say, in words, "You need to listen to me" or some such. Unhappy parents will say it over and over again, and happy parents tend to say it once, and when the child doesn't listen, they look sad and say something along the line, "Gee, I don't think this is going to work out very well for you!"

And then consistent consequences follow.

I grant you that dishing out consequences <i>lovingly and with empathy</i> when necessary is an art. Here, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it! That art of consequencing has been dealt with in many books.

FosterClineMD
01-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Gosh, Lisa did such an outstanding job of answering this, I don't see what I can add.
<br />
<br />I do remember a very talkative and "noisy" mom who, when I saw her kid alone said, "Really Dr. Cline, if you lived with my mom, you'd probably stop listening too." Sometimes when kids don't listen, it's simply because our talk/say ratio as parents is way too high. If this shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.
<br />
<br />I really want to emphasize what Lisa said - - Happy children (and happy countries, too) do well because of how the administration <i>operates</i>, not what is said, requested, promised or lectured about.
<br />
<br />Frankly all parents say, in words, "You need to listen to me" or some such. Unhappy parents will say it over and over again, and happy parents tend to say it once, and when the child doesn't listen, they look sad and say something along the line, "Gee, I don't think this is going to work out very well for you!"
<br />
<br />And then consistent consequences follow.
<br />
<br />I grant you that dishing out consequences <i>lovingly and with empathy</i> when necessary is an art. Here, it's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it! That art of consequencing has been dealt with in many books.