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entropy
10-25-2010, 11:03 PM
just wondering if anyone here is prescribed opiates for pain. it seems like the CF doctors I've met are very hesitant about prescribing any narcotics whatsoever, even for extreme pain.

because of this, when i broke my back and suffered a pulmonary embolism in july i opted to stay at the local hospital under the care of doctors who were lenient with pain meds but not very knowledgeable about CF. my doctor wanted me to go to the university hospital where he practices, but i knew that if i went they would not adequately treat my pain, and i didn't want to suffer, so i refused to go.

are most CF doctors like this?

entropy
10-25-2010, 11:03 PM
just wondering if anyone here is prescribed opiates for pain. it seems like the CF doctors I've met are very hesitant about prescribing any narcotics whatsoever, even for extreme pain.

because of this, when i broke my back and suffered a pulmonary embolism in july i opted to stay at the local hospital under the care of doctors who were lenient with pain meds but not very knowledgeable about CF. my doctor wanted me to go to the university hospital where he practices, but i knew that if i went they would not adequately treat my pain, and i didn't want to suffer, so i refused to go.

are most CF doctors like this?

entropy
10-25-2010, 11:03 PM
just wondering if anyone here is prescribed opiates for pain. it seems like the CF doctors I've met are very hesitant about prescribing any narcotics whatsoever, even for extreme pain.
<br />
<br />because of this, when i broke my back and suffered a pulmonary embolism in july i opted to stay at the local hospital under the care of doctors who were lenient with pain meds but not very knowledgeable about CF. my doctor wanted me to go to the university hospital where he practices, but i knew that if i went they would not adequately treat my pain, and i didn't want to suffer, so i refused to go.
<br />
<br />are most CF doctors like this?

ej0820
10-25-2010, 11:31 PM
My CF doc only prescribes these kinds of drugs in extreme cases. He let me have some when I got my mediport put in and also let me take some as needed for pain associated with pleurisy a few years back. Otherwise, it's 600mg ibuprofen.

I don't know if this is the case with your CF doc, but the CF docs at my clinic are very hesitant to prescribe opiates/narcotics because these drugs can really depress your breathing and completely dry you out. They tend to have the same effect, or stronger, that benadryl does on the lungs in that breathing comfortably and getting junk out will be nearly impossible. I remember a post a while back about benadryl that I posted and someone mentioned that it makes them feel like they're coughing up tar-these drugs can do the same.

I, personally, have noticed it more with some than others. For example, percocet doesn't seem to dry me out as much as dalaudid (sp?) does, etc.

Hope this helps, I don't think it's just your clinic, I think it's more of a precautionary thing CF docs like to take. Why make the gunk stickier when there are other pain meds (even though they don't always cut it) to use?

ej0820
10-25-2010, 11:31 PM
My CF doc only prescribes these kinds of drugs in extreme cases. He let me have some when I got my mediport put in and also let me take some as needed for pain associated with pleurisy a few years back. Otherwise, it's 600mg ibuprofen.

I don't know if this is the case with your CF doc, but the CF docs at my clinic are very hesitant to prescribe opiates/narcotics because these drugs can really depress your breathing and completely dry you out. They tend to have the same effect, or stronger, that benadryl does on the lungs in that breathing comfortably and getting junk out will be nearly impossible. I remember a post a while back about benadryl that I posted and someone mentioned that it makes them feel like they're coughing up tar-these drugs can do the same.

I, personally, have noticed it more with some than others. For example, percocet doesn't seem to dry me out as much as dalaudid (sp?) does, etc.

Hope this helps, I don't think it's just your clinic, I think it's more of a precautionary thing CF docs like to take. Why make the gunk stickier when there are other pain meds (even though they don't always cut it) to use?

ej0820
10-25-2010, 11:31 PM
My CF doc only prescribes these kinds of drugs in extreme cases. He let me have some when I got my mediport put in and also let me take some as needed for pain associated with pleurisy a few years back. Otherwise, it's 600mg ibuprofen.
<br />
<br />I don't know if this is the case with your CF doc, but the CF docs at my clinic are very hesitant to prescribe opiates/narcotics because these drugs can really depress your breathing and completely dry you out. They tend to have the same effect, or stronger, that benadryl does on the lungs in that breathing comfortably and getting junk out will be nearly impossible. I remember a post a while back about benadryl that I posted and someone mentioned that it makes them feel like they're coughing up tar-these drugs can do the same.
<br />
<br />I, personally, have noticed it more with some than others. For example, percocet doesn't seem to dry me out as much as dalaudid (sp?) does, etc.
<br />
<br />Hope this helps, I don't think it's just your clinic, I think it's more of a precautionary thing CF docs like to take. Why make the gunk stickier when there are other pain meds (even though they don't always cut it) to use?

theLostMiler
10-25-2010, 11:33 PM
I think w/ the risk of dependency/addiction to narcotic pain meds that might be one reason that cf docs and/or regular docs try to not give pain meds... although at the er once I was almost given something starting w/ a "d" that was the eqivalent of 10 times the strength of morphine.... w/o hesitation.

Another reason I believe, that narcotic pain meds slow down all the systems in the body (I guess a narcotic is a downer right? is that right? obviously D.A.R.E stuck w/ me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> lol) so that means slower digestive/bowels (dont really need that for cf'ers) and slower respiratory (dont want that either).

When I have had morphine I can feel it take over my whole body from like my neck down to my feet and can really feel it when it hits my lungs... I try to take torodol for any pain (or if I am at home I have an old script for tramadol... but since I rarely need/want pain meds I dont have to worry about the tramadol loosing effect or the 5 day limit for torodol.

Anyways, that might be why cf docs lean against narcotics for pain relievers. ??

theLostMiler
10-25-2010, 11:33 PM
I think w/ the risk of dependency/addiction to narcotic pain meds that might be one reason that cf docs and/or regular docs try to not give pain meds... although at the er once I was almost given something starting w/ a "d" that was the eqivalent of 10 times the strength of morphine.... w/o hesitation.

Another reason I believe, that narcotic pain meds slow down all the systems in the body (I guess a narcotic is a downer right? is that right? obviously D.A.R.E stuck w/ me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> lol) so that means slower digestive/bowels (dont really need that for cf'ers) and slower respiratory (dont want that either).

When I have had morphine I can feel it take over my whole body from like my neck down to my feet and can really feel it when it hits my lungs... I try to take torodol for any pain (or if I am at home I have an old script for tramadol... but since I rarely need/want pain meds I dont have to worry about the tramadol loosing effect or the 5 day limit for torodol.

Anyways, that might be why cf docs lean against narcotics for pain relievers. ??

theLostMiler
10-25-2010, 11:33 PM
I think w/ the risk of dependency/addiction to narcotic pain meds that might be one reason that cf docs and/or regular docs try to not give pain meds... although at the er once I was almost given something starting w/ a "d" that was the eqivalent of 10 times the strength of morphine.... w/o hesitation.
<br />
<br />Another reason I believe, that narcotic pain meds slow down all the systems in the body (I guess a narcotic is a downer right? is that right? obviously D.A.R.E stuck w/ me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> lol) so that means slower digestive/bowels (dont really need that for cf'ers) and slower respiratory (dont want that either).
<br />
<br />When I have had morphine I can feel it take over my whole body from like my neck down to my feet and can really feel it when it hits my lungs... I try to take torodol for any pain (or if I am at home I have an old script for tramadol... but since I rarely need/want pain meds I dont have to worry about the tramadol loosing effect or the 5 day limit for torodol.
<br />
<br />Anyways, that might be why cf docs lean against narcotics for pain relievers. ??

entropy
10-26-2010, 12:28 AM
i've never noticed my lungs getting dried out while using opiates. when i took them, my lungs felt good and i was able to do a lot more without getting short of breath. when i take tylenol i do notice that my secretions are thicker, and i noticed it as well with things like vicodin and percocet which have so much tylenol in them. however, i've been prescribed oxycodone (which is the opiate in percocet) that contained no tylenol and had no noticeable lung side effects.

opiates do suppress breathing at high doses but at average theraputic doses the suppression of breathing is negligible. when i was in the hospital with a collapsed lung and chest tube, i wasn't given adequate pain medication and i ended up getting pneumonia because i was intentionally breathing very shallowly because it hurt so bad when i took in a breath. had i been given proper pain relief i doubt i would have got pneumonia.

and i've had the exact same experience with benadryl. it really is like "coughing up tar", i actually used that exact description when explaining to someone what benadryl does to my lungs. nassssty stuff, benadryl. if you want tar pits for lungs, take benadryl!

entropy
10-26-2010, 12:28 AM
i've never noticed my lungs getting dried out while using opiates. when i took them, my lungs felt good and i was able to do a lot more without getting short of breath. when i take tylenol i do notice that my secretions are thicker, and i noticed it as well with things like vicodin and percocet which have so much tylenol in them. however, i've been prescribed oxycodone (which is the opiate in percocet) that contained no tylenol and had no noticeable lung side effects.

opiates do suppress breathing at high doses but at average theraputic doses the suppression of breathing is negligible. when i was in the hospital with a collapsed lung and chest tube, i wasn't given adequate pain medication and i ended up getting pneumonia because i was intentionally breathing very shallowly because it hurt so bad when i took in a breath. had i been given proper pain relief i doubt i would have got pneumonia.

and i've had the exact same experience with benadryl. it really is like "coughing up tar", i actually used that exact description when explaining to someone what benadryl does to my lungs. nassssty stuff, benadryl. if you want tar pits for lungs, take benadryl!

entropy
10-26-2010, 12:28 AM
i've never noticed my lungs getting dried out while using opiates. when i took them, my lungs felt good and i was able to do a lot more without getting short of breath. when i take tylenol i do notice that my secretions are thicker, and i noticed it as well with things like vicodin and percocet which have so much tylenol in them. however, i've been prescribed oxycodone (which is the opiate in percocet) that contained no tylenol and had no noticeable lung side effects.
<br />
<br />opiates do suppress breathing at high doses but at average theraputic doses the suppression of breathing is negligible. when i was in the hospital with a collapsed lung and chest tube, i wasn't given adequate pain medication and i ended up getting pneumonia because i was intentionally breathing very shallowly because it hurt so bad when i took in a breath. had i been given proper pain relief i doubt i would have got pneumonia.
<br />
<br />and i've had the exact same experience with benadryl. it really is like "coughing up tar", i actually used that exact description when explaining to someone what benadryl does to my lungs. nassssty stuff, benadryl. if you want tar pits for lungs, take benadryl!

KrazyKat
10-31-2010, 10:07 PM
My docs prescribe me codeine when i'm exacerbating as usually i'm on ceftazadime which gives me really nasty headaches that nurofen and paracetemol won't touch.

I'm not keen to take anything stronger as i'm getting ever closer to transplant now and want to make sure the pain drugs work really really well when i need them.

But basically, i don't think the breathing is depressed very much on opiates, i've certainly never noticed it and i've taken some fairly high doses of codeine before. They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft.

KrazyKat
10-31-2010, 10:07 PM
My docs prescribe me codeine when i'm exacerbating as usually i'm on ceftazadime which gives me really nasty headaches that nurofen and paracetemol won't touch.

I'm not keen to take anything stronger as i'm getting ever closer to transplant now and want to make sure the pain drugs work really really well when i need them.

But basically, i don't think the breathing is depressed very much on opiates, i've certainly never noticed it and i've taken some fairly high doses of codeine before. They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft.

KrazyKat
10-31-2010, 10:07 PM
My docs prescribe me codeine when i'm exacerbating as usually i'm on ceftazadime which gives me really nasty headaches that nurofen and paracetemol won't touch.
<br />
<br />I'm not keen to take anything stronger as i'm getting ever closer to transplant now and want to make sure the pain drugs work really really well when i need them.
<br />
<br />But basically, i don't think the breathing is depressed very much on opiates, i've certainly never noticed it and i've taken some fairly high doses of codeine before. They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft.

entropy
11-01-2010, 12:27 PM
" They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft."

I totally relate with your sarcasm here.

+1!

Doctors are so quick to prescribe SSRI antidepressants that are toxic and often make the people who take them even more depressed but have a problem prescribing stuff that actually works. The clinical significance of opiates as potent, relatively benign antidepressants needs to be reopened and properly evaluated in an unbiased way. the UN's, specifically the USA's, war on drugs i think is in many ways responsible for doctors reluctance to prescribe proper pain medications.

entropy
11-01-2010, 12:27 PM
" They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft."

I totally relate with your sarcasm here.

+1!

Doctors are so quick to prescribe SSRI antidepressants that are toxic and often make the people who take them even more depressed but have a problem prescribing stuff that actually works. The clinical significance of opiates as potent, relatively benign antidepressants needs to be reopened and properly evaluated in an unbiased way. the UN's, specifically the USA's, war on drugs i think is in many ways responsible for doctors reluctance to prescribe proper pain medications.

entropy
11-01-2010, 12:27 PM
" They just don't want us getting hooked on the euphoria it gives us, gotta watch that euphoria, nasty stuff, never mind the difficulty breathing, pain in the lungs, massive inflammation and facing the potential of death every day of our lives, these are all fine, just don't be giving us anything that makes us euphoric, we coudln't possibly allow that. Pfft."
<br />
<br />I totally relate with your sarcasm here.
<br />
<br />+1!
<br />
<br />Doctors are so quick to prescribe SSRI antidepressants that are toxic and often make the people who take them even more depressed but have a problem prescribing stuff that actually works. The clinical significance of opiates as potent, relatively benign antidepressants needs to be reopened and properly evaluated in an unbiased way. the UN's, specifically the USA's, war on drugs i think is in many ways responsible for doctors reluctance to prescribe proper pain medications.

regina65
11-01-2010, 01:42 PM
I have noticed that some family practice dr's will prescribe me narcotics 'but the one I use wont even give me anything for anxiety . He wants to give me Lexapro and Cymbalta . I'm not depressed just am too wound up. Need something like what they gave me when I had a colonoscopy done I have never been so relaxed. And I actually slept without meds for 2 nights. Didn't notice that it affected my lungs at all. But neither of my dr's cf or PCP will give me anything like that. I mean who cares if it is addictive I have Cf and 2 different kinds of Cepacia and Mrsa. Let me have some sort of peace while I'm here.. I dont have that much pain . Cant take hydrocodone or oxycodone either b/c they make me really sick (throwing up)for days.

regina65
11-01-2010, 01:42 PM
I have noticed that some family practice dr's will prescribe me narcotics 'but the one I use wont even give me anything for anxiety . He wants to give me Lexapro and Cymbalta . I'm not depressed just am too wound up. Need something like what they gave me when I had a colonoscopy done I have never been so relaxed. And I actually slept without meds for 2 nights. Didn't notice that it affected my lungs at all. But neither of my dr's cf or PCP will give me anything like that. I mean who cares if it is addictive I have Cf and 2 different kinds of Cepacia and Mrsa. Let me have some sort of peace while I'm here.. I dont have that much pain . Cant take hydrocodone or oxycodone either b/c they make me really sick (throwing up)for days.

regina65
11-01-2010, 01:42 PM
I have noticed that some family practice dr's will prescribe me narcotics 'but the one I use wont even give me anything for anxiety . He wants to give me Lexapro and Cymbalta . I'm not depressed just am too wound up. Need something like what they gave me when I had a colonoscopy done I have never been so relaxed. And I actually slept without meds for 2 nights. Didn't notice that it affected my lungs at all. But neither of my dr's cf or PCP will give me anything like that. I mean who cares if it is addictive I have Cf and 2 different kinds of Cepacia and Mrsa. Let me have some sort of peace while I'm here.. I dont have that much pain . Cant take hydrocodone or oxycodone either b/c they make me really sick (throwing up)for days.

Proxy
11-02-2010, 11:13 PM
I also have anxiety and pain but my docs are very weary on perscribing anything for pain but seem to be alot more lenient on giving out anti-depressants.I am also not depressed, I am just always as the poster said above me "wound up", I worry about being sick, I worry about people getting me sick, I worry about my own mortality, I just want to shut it all off and relax and the only time I have ever felt this way was on Oxies, I cant do anything really and my quality of life is crap, I just wish they would give me something to make me comfortable, but I can understand how anyone who is going through this and to suddenly feel better would get addicted to that.One of the above posters said that when they took them they could feel it formt he neck down taking affect, for me this was the case as well but it was a positive feeling, my lungs felt lighter and just overall better, it is hard to describe, I could also accomplish more without feeling tired.
just thought id share my 2 cents

Proxy
11-02-2010, 11:13 PM
I also have anxiety and pain but my docs are very weary on perscribing anything for pain but seem to be alot more lenient on giving out anti-depressants.I am also not depressed, I am just always as the poster said above me "wound up", I worry about being sick, I worry about people getting me sick, I worry about my own mortality, I just want to shut it all off and relax and the only time I have ever felt this way was on Oxies, I cant do anything really and my quality of life is crap, I just wish they would give me something to make me comfortable, but I can understand how anyone who is going through this and to suddenly feel better would get addicted to that.One of the above posters said that when they took them they could feel it formt he neck down taking affect, for me this was the case as well but it was a positive feeling, my lungs felt lighter and just overall better, it is hard to describe, I could also accomplish more without feeling tired.
just thought id share my 2 cents

Proxy
11-02-2010, 11:13 PM
I also have anxiety and pain but my docs are very weary on perscribing anything for pain but seem to be alot more lenient on giving out anti-depressants.I am also not depressed, I am just always as the poster said above me "wound up", I worry about being sick, I worry about people getting me sick, I worry about my own mortality, I just want to shut it all off and relax and the only time I have ever felt this way was on Oxies, I cant do anything really and my quality of life is crap, I just wish they would give me something to make me comfortable, but I can understand how anyone who is going through this and to suddenly feel better would get addicted to that.One of the above posters said that when they took them they could feel it formt he neck down taking affect, for me this was the case as well but it was a positive feeling, my lungs felt lighter and just overall better, it is hard to describe, I could also accomplish more without feeling tired.
<br />just thought id share my 2 cents

juliepie
11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
pre-transplant, i was taking oxycodone in contrast to what one of my transplant teams was telling me. my CF doctor finally agreed that I was at the point in my disease progression that it was only 'end-stage care' and that my comfort was the most important thing she could do for me. Yes, the narcotics depress your respiratory system to an extent. But, like someone mentioned, you feel fantastic, like you can do so much more. I think part of that is that it takes away the "air hunger" that you feel when you are chronically hypoxic. I was on 4L full-time, in constant pain from infection, inflammation, and just the strain of breathing. once all that is abated and you are pharmacologically relaxed, you don't have that extra added anxiety about getting more air, even if your breathing is a little more depressed. It's all a big balancing act- you want the pain and air hunger to go away, but you don't want to drop your sats too far. I had one transplant center telling me NO, and cleveland clinic saying YES, and my pulmonologist stuck in the middle, prescribing me 10 pills at a time to "use judiciously." I feel really strongly that CF patients should have better pain management- if you feel like crap, you're not going to get off the couch. If you take a vicodin and feel great, then you get off the couch and get moving and exercising and enjoying life. An extra saline treatment will get things moving again, anyway. Good luck! You're your best advocate in situations like this.

juliepie
11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
pre-transplant, i was taking oxycodone in contrast to what one of my transplant teams was telling me. my CF doctor finally agreed that I was at the point in my disease progression that it was only 'end-stage care' and that my comfort was the most important thing she could do for me. Yes, the narcotics depress your respiratory system to an extent. But, like someone mentioned, you feel fantastic, like you can do so much more. I think part of that is that it takes away the "air hunger" that you feel when you are chronically hypoxic. I was on 4L full-time, in constant pain from infection, inflammation, and just the strain of breathing. once all that is abated and you are pharmacologically relaxed, you don't have that extra added anxiety about getting more air, even if your breathing is a little more depressed. It's all a big balancing act- you want the pain and air hunger to go away, but you don't want to drop your sats too far. I had one transplant center telling me NO, and cleveland clinic saying YES, and my pulmonologist stuck in the middle, prescribing me 10 pills at a time to "use judiciously." I feel really strongly that CF patients should have better pain management- if you feel like crap, you're not going to get off the couch. If you take a vicodin and feel great, then you get off the couch and get moving and exercising and enjoying life. An extra saline treatment will get things moving again, anyway. Good luck! You're your best advocate in situations like this.

juliepie
11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
pre-transplant, i was taking oxycodone in contrast to what one of my transplant teams was telling me. my CF doctor finally agreed that I was at the point in my disease progression that it was only 'end-stage care' and that my comfort was the most important thing she could do for me. Yes, the narcotics depress your respiratory system to an extent. But, like someone mentioned, you feel fantastic, like you can do so much more. I think part of that is that it takes away the "air hunger" that you feel when you are chronically hypoxic. I was on 4L full-time, in constant pain from infection, inflammation, and just the strain of breathing. once all that is abated and you are pharmacologically relaxed, you don't have that extra added anxiety about getting more air, even if your breathing is a little more depressed. It's all a big balancing act- you want the pain and air hunger to go away, but you don't want to drop your sats too far. I had one transplant center telling me NO, and cleveland clinic saying YES, and my pulmonologist stuck in the middle, prescribing me 10 pills at a time to "use judiciously." I feel really strongly that CF patients should have better pain management- if you feel like crap, you're not going to get off the couch. If you take a vicodin and feel great, then you get off the couch and get moving and exercising and enjoying life. An extra saline treatment will get things moving again, anyway. Good luck! You're your best advocate in situations like this.

entropy
11-03-2010, 02:21 AM
When I am prescribed narcotics my quality of life goes way up.

I feel better both physically and mentally. I do not feel bogged down by fatigue. I breathe deeper and sleep better. The only potential negative effects could be constipation and respiratory depression, but tolerance quickly develops to both. If one was to become "addicted" (and there is a difference between "addicted" and "dependent") the doctor should acknowledge the situation and start a taper or recommend rehabilitation.

Either way, I feel that it's MY body and if I'm legally allowed to buy and drink ALCOHOL which is much more toxic than opium-derived narcotics than I should be allowed to take opiates if I want to.

Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...

entropy
11-03-2010, 02:21 AM
When I am prescribed narcotics my quality of life goes way up.

I feel better both physically and mentally. I do not feel bogged down by fatigue. I breathe deeper and sleep better. The only potential negative effects could be constipation and respiratory depression, but tolerance quickly develops to both. If one was to become "addicted" (and there is a difference between "addicted" and "dependent") the doctor should acknowledge the situation and start a taper or recommend rehabilitation.

Either way, I feel that it's MY body and if I'm legally allowed to buy and drink ALCOHOL which is much more toxic than opium-derived narcotics than I should be allowed to take opiates if I want to.

Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...

entropy
11-03-2010, 02:21 AM
When I am prescribed narcotics my quality of life goes way up.
<br />
<br />I feel better both physically and mentally. I do not feel bogged down by fatigue. I breathe deeper and sleep better. The only potential negative effects could be constipation and respiratory depression, but tolerance quickly develops to both. If one was to become "addicted" (and there is a difference between "addicted" and "dependent") the doctor should acknowledge the situation and start a taper or recommend rehabilitation.
<br />
<br />Either way, I feel that it's MY body and if I'm legally allowed to buy and drink ALCOHOL which is much more toxic than opium-derived narcotics than I should be allowed to take opiates if I want to.
<br />
<br />Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...

KrazyKat
11-05-2010, 04:20 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>

Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...</end quote></div>


I so agree with you, over here in NZ we have a huge problem with alcohol. People binge drink then drive, commit crimes and it costs our socialised health system millions of dollars a year. Alcohol can be purchased all over the place, supermarkets even. Now coincidentally we simultaneously spend millions of dollars a year hunting down marijuana growers and bringing them to justice. Marijuana smokers are subdued and lazy people who simply don't have the energy to commit crime and have been proven to be slow, careful drivers, even more so than completely straight drivers, marijuana costs our country very little in health costs each year, if any. The experts say MJ is a 'gateway' drug, they're right of course, once stoned people then move on to much worse things, like KFC, coca cola and chocolate usually <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

Can somebody tell me the logic in this approach? Alcohol costs us millions in health care each year and has precisely zero health benefits and is available to everybody everywhere. Marijuana costs us virtually nothing in healthcare and has numerous health benefits, but is illegal and we spend millions a year trying to stop people using it.
As far as i'm concerned alcohol should be illegal, not pot! Grrrr!

KrazyKat
11-05-2010, 04:20 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>

Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...</end quote>


I so agree with you, over here in NZ we have a huge problem with alcohol. People binge drink then drive, commit crimes and it costs our socialised health system millions of dollars a year. Alcohol can be purchased all over the place, supermarkets even. Now coincidentally we simultaneously spend millions of dollars a year hunting down marijuana growers and bringing them to justice. Marijuana smokers are subdued and lazy people who simply don't have the energy to commit crime and have been proven to be slow, careful drivers, even more so than completely straight drivers, marijuana costs our country very little in health costs each year, if any. The experts say MJ is a 'gateway' drug, they're right of course, once stoned people then move on to much worse things, like KFC, coca cola and chocolate usually <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

Can somebody tell me the logic in this approach? Alcohol costs us millions in health care each year and has precisely zero health benefits and is available to everybody everywhere. Marijuana costs us virtually nothing in healthcare and has numerous health benefits, but is illegal and we spend millions a year trying to stop people using it.
As far as i'm concerned alcohol should be illegal, not pot! Grrrr!

KrazyKat
11-05-2010, 04:20 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>
<br />
<br />Outlaw ALL drugs or legalize and regulate ALL drugs. None of this pick-and-choose crap. People who are going to be addicts start with milk, graduate to chocolate, then cigarettes, then alcohol, then narcotics, cocaine, or whatever. It infuriates me that people feel they can tell me what I can do to and with my OWN body. "But addiction is a plague that does so much harm to the addict's family!" Oh, yeah? Is lying and adultery going to be made illegal next because it hurt's people's feelings? Come on...</end quote>
<br />
<br />
<br />I so agree with you, over here in NZ we have a huge problem with alcohol. People binge drink then drive, commit crimes and it costs our socialised health system millions of dollars a year. Alcohol can be purchased all over the place, supermarkets even. Now coincidentally we simultaneously spend millions of dollars a year hunting down marijuana growers and bringing them to justice. Marijuana smokers are subdued and lazy people who simply don't have the energy to commit crime and have been proven to be slow, careful drivers, even more so than completely straight drivers, marijuana costs our country very little in health costs each year, if any. The experts say MJ is a 'gateway' drug, they're right of course, once stoned people then move on to much worse things, like KFC, coca cola and chocolate usually <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">
<br />
<br />Can somebody tell me the logic in this approach? Alcohol costs us millions in health care each year and has precisely zero health benefits and is available to everybody everywhere. Marijuana costs us virtually nothing in healthcare and has numerous health benefits, but is illegal and we spend millions a year trying to stop people using it.
<br />As far as i'm concerned alcohol should be illegal, not pot! Grrrr!

entropy
11-05-2010, 11:48 PM
KrazyKat, you'll probably find this funny... today I was watching a video on YouTube about the "salvia epidemic" that is "sweeping through every city in the USA." Some state senators are trying to have salvia made illegal for fear of people "smoking a hit of salvia and getting behind the wheel, driving a motorcycle, or hopping into a pool somewhere and injuring themselves or others." The senator went on to say (paraphrasing) "if not checked now, this drug will soon sweep through every city in America" as though salvia is a highly addictive, destructive drug. The ignorance in the government and society at large is unbelievable... outlaw salvia but allow alcohol to remain legal? someone who smokes salvia will be unable to conceptualize what a car even is, much less take all the steps involved in starting it and driving it. Yet alcohol, which seems to, for whatever reason, COMPEL people to drive (and smoke cigarettes), is perfectly OK by him. It's blaring hypocrisy.

I think marijuana is illegal because it causes people to think intensely and philosophically, which leads to people questioning their values and belief systems and ultimately uprising and/or revolution. And by uprising and revolution, that doesn't only mean active revolt and resistance toward the government but also passive resistance, i.e. dropping out of society and living a non-materialistic environmentally aware life. The government saw this happen to the extremes on both ends of that spectrum during the late 60s. Governments are extremely scared of both passive and active resistance. Like governments do, they chose to preserve their own interests rather than protecting the constitutional rights of its citizens.

In many ways, similar to freedom of speech and press, drugs = liberty. But only in oppressive regimes.

Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.

entropy
11-05-2010, 11:48 PM
KrazyKat, you'll probably find this funny... today I was watching a video on YouTube about the "salvia epidemic" that is "sweeping through every city in the USA." Some state senators are trying to have salvia made illegal for fear of people "smoking a hit of salvia and getting behind the wheel, driving a motorcycle, or hopping into a pool somewhere and injuring themselves or others." The senator went on to say (paraphrasing) "if not checked now, this drug will soon sweep through every city in America" as though salvia is a highly addictive, destructive drug. The ignorance in the government and society at large is unbelievable... outlaw salvia but allow alcohol to remain legal? someone who smokes salvia will be unable to conceptualize what a car even is, much less take all the steps involved in starting it and driving it. Yet alcohol, which seems to, for whatever reason, COMPEL people to drive (and smoke cigarettes), is perfectly OK by him. It's blaring hypocrisy.

I think marijuana is illegal because it causes people to think intensely and philosophically, which leads to people questioning their values and belief systems and ultimately uprising and/or revolution. And by uprising and revolution, that doesn't only mean active revolt and resistance toward the government but also passive resistance, i.e. dropping out of society and living a non-materialistic environmentally aware life. The government saw this happen to the extremes on both ends of that spectrum during the late 60s. Governments are extremely scared of both passive and active resistance. Like governments do, they chose to preserve their own interests rather than protecting the constitutional rights of its citizens.

In many ways, similar to freedom of speech and press, drugs = liberty. But only in oppressive regimes.

Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.

entropy
11-05-2010, 11:48 PM
KrazyKat, you'll probably find this funny... today I was watching a video on YouTube about the "salvia epidemic" that is "sweeping through every city in the USA." Some state senators are trying to have salvia made illegal for fear of people "smoking a hit of salvia and getting behind the wheel, driving a motorcycle, or hopping into a pool somewhere and injuring themselves or others." The senator went on to say (paraphrasing) "if not checked now, this drug will soon sweep through every city in America" as though salvia is a highly addictive, destructive drug. The ignorance in the government and society at large is unbelievable... outlaw salvia but allow alcohol to remain legal? someone who smokes salvia will be unable to conceptualize what a car even is, much less take all the steps involved in starting it and driving it. Yet alcohol, which seems to, for whatever reason, COMPEL people to drive (and smoke cigarettes), is perfectly OK by him. It's blaring hypocrisy.
<br />
<br />I think marijuana is illegal because it causes people to think intensely and philosophically, which leads to people questioning their values and belief systems and ultimately uprising and/or revolution. And by uprising and revolution, that doesn't only mean active revolt and resistance toward the government but also passive resistance, i.e. dropping out of society and living a non-materialistic environmentally aware life. The government saw this happen to the extremes on both ends of that spectrum during the late 60s. Governments are extremely scared of both passive and active resistance. Like governments do, they chose to preserve their own interests rather than protecting the constitutional rights of its citizens.
<br />
<br />In many ways, similar to freedom of speech and press, drugs = liberty. But only in oppressive regimes.
<br />
<br />Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:11 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>

Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.</end quote></div>

First of all, you verbalised my thoughts perfectly with this comment
"I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body"

I don't condone drug use either (but i do highly recommend some experimenting within sensible boundaries <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> ), but it's largely a victimless crime and SHOULD be a matter of personal choice whether your drug of choice is alcohol or pot, therefore they need to be legislated and managed in exactly the same way.


Now speaking of 'uprising' as you did, i'm off to find my Muse CD!!

Peace out <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:11 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>

Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.</end quote>

First of all, you verbalised my thoughts perfectly with this comment
"I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body"

I don't condone drug use either (but i do highly recommend some experimenting within sensible boundaries <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> ), but it's largely a victimless crime and SHOULD be a matter of personal choice whether your drug of choice is alcohol or pot, therefore they need to be legislated and managed in exactly the same way.


Now speaking of 'uprising' as you did, i'm off to find my Muse CD!!

Peace out <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:11 AM
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>entropy</b></i>
<br />
<br />Note: Please don't take this message as me advocating drug use. I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body. People with CF obviously can't do drugs and live very long... a perfect example of this is my sister who passed at 21 after a couple years of hard drug use.</end quote>
<br />
<br />First of all, you verbalised my thoughts perfectly with this comment
<br />"I am simply acknowledging every human's right to be the sole governor of their own body"
<br />
<br />I don't condone drug use either (but i do highly recommend some experimenting within sensible boundaries <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> ), but it's largely a victimless crime and SHOULD be a matter of personal choice whether your drug of choice is alcohol or pot, therefore they need to be legislated and managed in exactly the same way.
<br />
<br />
<br />Now speaking of 'uprising' as you did, i'm off to find my Muse CD!!
<br />
<br />Peace out <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:14 AM
Oh and i meant to add, i remember your story about your sister, she had CF too didn't she if i recall correctly?

So sorry for your loss, but on one hand I can so relate to her decision to live life her way, the temptation to do exactly what she did, has been a huge problem my whole life. CF has that effect on some people

<img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:14 AM
Oh and i meant to add, i remember your story about your sister, she had CF too didn't she if i recall correctly?

So sorry for your loss, but on one hand I can so relate to her decision to live life her way, the temptation to do exactly what she did, has been a huge problem my whole life. CF has that effect on some people

<img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">

KrazyKat
11-10-2010, 07:14 AM
Oh and i meant to add, i remember your story about your sister, she had CF too didn't she if i recall correctly?
<br />
<br />So sorry for your loss, but on one hand I can so relate to her decision to live life her way, the temptation to do exactly what she did, has been a huge problem my whole life. CF has that effect on some people
<br />
<br /><img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">

Havoc
11-10-2010, 03:12 PM
LOL about the Salvia. I've tried it and let me tell you that there's no way you are going to get behind a wheel on it. You'll be lucky to get out of your chair. Not only that, but the halflife of Salvia is very short (and it tastes terrible).

Havoc
11-10-2010, 03:12 PM
LOL about the Salvia. I've tried it and let me tell you that there's no way you are going to get behind a wheel on it. You'll be lucky to get out of your chair. Not only that, but the halflife of Salvia is very short (and it tastes terrible).

Havoc
11-10-2010, 03:12 PM
LOL about the Salvia. I've tried it and let me tell you that there's no way you are going to get behind a wheel on it. You'll be lucky to get out of your chair. Not only that, but the halflife of Salvia is very short (and it tastes terrible).